WSB grow out report/evaluation AKA appraisal

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WSB grow out report/evaluation AKA appraisal

Postby donny » February 5th, 2018, 9:55 am

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Re: WSB grow out report/evaluation AKA appraisal

Postby John Hughes » February 6th, 2018, 5:09 am

I have to jam to work so I have not read the whole document, but I'm finding this very interesting! Really curious to see how this is going to play out.......

Thanks for posting it up Donny!

Here's a small snippet....

; however it has shown that, at least for White Seabass, enhancement has not been effective to date, thereby falling short of the ultimate legislative goal.
An analysis conducted for this review of tag-recapture data generated by the OREHP between 2000 and 2011 indicated that the program has made a less than 1% contribution to enhancing the California White Seabass population and fishery due to high levels of mortality suffered by hatchery-reared White Seabass following release into the wild. According to the analysis, if mortality rates of released hatchery fish were reduced to equal those of wild White Seabass, then current stocking rates could result in a hatchery contribution of 18% instead of <1% of the total fishery catch. Therefore, in order to achieve the ultimate goal of fisheries enhancement,
ii
the approaches and technologies developed for White Seabass would require further development aimed at reducing post-release mortality, including the related recommendations made throughout the evaluation report.
It should also be noted that, while the White Seabass stock was considered depleted when the OREHP was initiated and White Seabass was chosen as the program’s focal species, the stock has since increased, likely due to a combination of high recruitment related to favorable environmental conditions and fisheries management measures (e.g., closure of the coastal gill net fishery).
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Re: WSB grow out report/evaluation AKA appraisal

Postby NaClAddict » February 6th, 2018, 10:23 am

Wait for the next “scientific paper” with an unprovable reason for why the wsb population boom is because of hubbs.
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Re: WSB grow out report/evaluation AKA appraisal

Postby John Hughes » February 6th, 2018, 3:36 pm

NaClAddict wrote:Wait for the next “scientific paper” with an unprovable reason for why the wsb population boom is because of hubbs.


I know! I'm anxiously awaiting being able to finish the document to see if they are able to change their mind and contradict themselves (and keep the money flowing) by the end and make it sound legit :rofl:
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Re: WSB grow out report/evaluation AKA appraisal

Postby Zenon » February 7th, 2018, 5:52 am

"In conclusion we find the majority of hatchery-reared white Seabass are captured by recreational spearfishing take and not reported. Therefore it is important this program continue and it's efforts amplified."
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Re: WSB grow out report/evaluation AKA appraisal

Postby donny » February 12th, 2018, 12:28 pm

you guys are such cynics! lol

From the little I know and my experiences over the last 15 years I think it was an accurate report the recommendations seem to make sense to me. they either need to revise the program to make it more effective or maybe the $ can be spent elsewhere for a different species where there is more need or effect. I selfishly hope it stay focused on something related to spearfishing, preferably in the area I dive, :)

... and hopefully not for raising more trout
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Re: WSB grow out report/evaluation AKA appraisal

Postby Nate Baker » February 12th, 2018, 1:08 pm

Last week's meeting of the North County Depth Finders featured a presentation by a Hubbs guy. I only caught about half of it, but reading between the lines, they get it. The seabass program isn't going like they thought it would. And while I never heard him say they're going to abandon wsb, he did say that if they knew in the 80's what they know now about the difficulties they'd never have chosen wsb for the program.

They're looking at several species to take on, but he spent a lot of time talking about halibut. Apparently they're easy to raise, and because their population is only 14% of it's historic size, there's a need.
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Re: WSB grow out report/evaluation AKA appraisal

Postby chris oak » February 12th, 2018, 1:41 pm

I think a lot of us had the same conclusions, and that's what the guys from PIER (Pfleger Institute) said as well.

WSB are easy to grow, the eggs are big and the larvae are hungry and grow rapidly. The problem with them is they are spazes from birth to adult. They crash into stuff all the time when they are started and they have those funny soft scales. Raising them to a larger size before release would probably help out, that's what we did with desert tortoises when I was in grad school. The problem is the food isn't exactly the same nutritionally and pen fish always grow out with some deformaties (clear heads, deformed jaws/snout) the larger they get, in the wild they eat a lot of different things and aren't rubbing against nets or walls.

It's really odd, we used to be able to get larvae or eggs from HUBBS really easily. The last time we tried they gave us a ton of paperwork and rules they kept adding on and eventually we gave up. They had a lot of other things they were trying down there I saw yellowtail and sheephead in their brood tanks.

Halibut would be a great thing to do if they could manage it correctly, the sea lab in redondo used to do that before.
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Re: WSB grow out report/evaluation AKA appraisal

Postby Errin » February 12th, 2018, 4:47 pm

donny wrote:you guys are such cynics! lol

From the little I know and my experiences over the last 15 years I think it was an accurate report the recommendations seem to make sense to me. they either need to revise the program to make it more effective or maybe the $ can be spent elsewhere for a different species where there is more need or effect. I selfishly hope it stay focused on something related to spearfishing, preferably in the area I dive, :)

... and hopefully not for raising more trout


You once told me my first WSB looked like a trout so make up your mind Harris!
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Re: WSB grow out report/evaluation AKA appraisal

Postby apneanaut » February 12th, 2018, 5:14 pm

John Hughes wrote:"According to the analysis, if mortality rates of released hatchery fish were reduced to equal those of wild White Seabass, then current stocking rates could result in a hatchery contribution of 18% instead of <1% of the total fishery catch. "

This is such an interesting detail - both the expected versus actual contribution to the fishery, and the fact that hatchery raised fish are so much more vulnerable than their wild counterparts. I wonder why. Maybe we underestimate the importance of natural selection in the infant stage, or the importance of experience/learning survival skills in the wild.
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Re: WSB grow out report/evaluation AKA appraisal

Postby donny » February 12th, 2018, 5:42 pm

I wasn't going to say halibut out loud but now that you did I will second as my guess to where the $ will go. some ground fish are another idea but I am guessing they are too slow growing and they have already spent a decent amount of effort figuring out how to farm halibut.

Nate Baker wrote:Last week's meeting of the North County Depth Finders featured a presentation by a Hubbs guy. I only caught about half of it, but reading between the lines, they get it. The seabass program isn't going like they thought it would. And while I never heard him say they're going to abandon wsb, he did say that if they knew in the 80's what they know now about the difficulties they'd never have chosen wsb for the program.

They're looking at several species to take on, but he spent a lot of time talking about halibut. Apparently they're easy to raise, and because their population is only 14% of it's historic size, there's a need.
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Re: WSB grow out report/evaluation AKA appraisal

Postby John Hughes » February 12th, 2018, 7:20 pm

donny wrote:you guys are such cynics! lol

From the little I know and my experiences over the last 15 years I think it was an accurate report the recommendations seem to make sense to me. they either need to revise the program to make it more effective or maybe the $ can be spent elsewhere for a different species where there is more need or effect. I selfishly hope it stay focused on something related to spearfishing, preferably in the area I dive, :)

... and hopefully not for raising more trout


Pretty big statement coming from a friend who I know has backed the program for so many years.

I've become a cynic because I believed the lies and preached the gospel and payed for it on top of everything else. Me and a few hundred thousand other CA anglers. Now I feel like a complete sucker now that the truth has come out. The guys that fed us the nonsense and committed the fraud should be crucified. Unfortunately, they will probably put some spin on it, change species and give themselves raises with the new money supplied by us suckers. And then the yuppie eco nazi's can use it against us while having us pay for our own crosses they will crucify us on.

It actually a relief to see some real science but I think it's probably because they got their covers pulled back so far with those secret emails. You know they are going to keep taking our money instead of discontinuing the $4.50 or whatever it is we pay for the ocean enhancement stamp. I'd love to see it go towards something us paying anglers (read suckers) could potentially benefit from.
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Re: WSB grow out report/evaluation AKA appraisal

Postby Nate Baker » February 15th, 2018, 6:53 am

An article on the NPR website this morning. For some reason, I can't get the link to the article to work. Go to main site and scroll down.

http://www.npr.org/

$40 Million Later, A Pioneering Plan To Boost Wild Fish Stocks Shows Little Success
A California program begun 35 years ago to boost waning white seabass populations became a model for other states. Now the first scientific review finds the program had a stunningly low success rate.
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Re: WSB grow out report/evaluation AKA appraisal

Postby donny » March 26th, 2018, 8:59 am

here is a response from the CCA... had to turn it into a jpg to post here. I made a large on with all 5 pages on one and individual as well
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Re: WSB grow out report/evaluation AKA appraisal

Postby dam » March 27th, 2018, 8:36 am

Alright, so in summary, some people say the program didn't work while some say it does, but needs more funding. Is that the gist of it? All that really means we just gotta practice conservation on our end where we can. Harvest responsibly, and look out for the future. I'm gonna do my part. It could be my failing skill set speaking but I would be pretty happy with just 1 or 2 fish this season. Or maybe I'm just getting old like Bill.
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Re: WSB grow out report/evaluation AKA appraisal

Postby Saltierdog » April 8th, 2018, 8:40 am

Thanks Donny for posting the response

Essentially all the science is based on whether fish can retain a small splinter of metal placed in their cheek for another 8-20years
To me this is the biggest problem of all if their body spits the tag then the hatchery fish becomes a wild fish and is not counted

again all this is junk science

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Re: WSB grow out report/evaluation AKA appraisal

Postby apneanaut » April 8th, 2018, 1:53 pm

Just because the program didn't work doesn't mean it wasn't worth the effort. Hindsight is 20/20.
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