An online forum for spearfishermen around the world.
chris oak wrote:Castro do you tune your floppers as well? I've read a few things about tuning and have tried it with disastrous results lol.
Slip tips are definitely a bit more cumbersome than a flopper, we use them more so on soft bodied fish like white seabass. It can be harder to remove them from a fish if it goes through bone etc, sometimes you have to string the whole shaft thru to get them out. Mori makes the best ones, his ball/sliptip fit is very tight, not wobbly like others I have seen.
When it's hot fishing and the yellows are everywhere I use floppers. If I'm only going to get one shot off and the fish are big I use a slip tip so I don't go home with the fish bag flapping in the wind . The Australians and a lot of other folks around the world use just pipe guns with floppers and they seem to do just fine.
dean_the_machine wrote:Don Paul,
The rate at which the shaft cools down can affect the stiffness in my limited experience.
There are some new stainless steels out there that require forced cooling from 1900+ F down to room temp in seconds to get really really hard ... but who has the equipment to do that and keep the shaft straight??
dustyyoungblood wrote:I like that you mention 1/4" shafts here Don.
I have had a couple really happy gun owners that we set up with 1/4" shafts in custom guns. Extremely fast muzzle speed.
Specifically, in short guns to 40" max. When making a gun for 1/4" shafts, I step down to 1/2" rubber (2-3 bands) and Tie them 300% not 350%. and pair that with 250lb mono.
I don't now all the calculations on that combo.... but I know it is very effective on fast moving tropical reef fish.
castronova wrote:Oh, and yes I tune my floppers once they need it. You can tune most of them with a pair of dull dykes or a nail set. It's not always easy though.
dustyyoungblood wrote:I have always wondered if the community would be open to a new sear notch design if it had a good purpose. My Gut feeling is we are stuck with American and Euro sear notches till the end of days.
SBH2Oman wrote:Great thread, very interesting topic, and timely for me as I just started rummaging through all my shafts to try and get some organizational system going.
A couple of comments:
1) I've used those rob allen shafts on my 100cm pipe guns for 4 or 5 years now, and they hold up really well except I have broken off three or four of those pins, which as far as I know renders the shaft useless (I can't imagine a cost-effective way of adding a pin?). Some times its because they get pulled in under a ledge (very sensitive to being banged against a rock), and some times they have snapped off when loading (like what Chris described). For this reason, I've stopped using them.
I have only used the Rob Allen shafts since Feb. but I can tell you I bend them way before a pin can possibly corrode and break off. I don't see one just breaking off from force. I use bands stretched to 400% with no problems. If you have pins breaking I'm guessing they are old and had some corrosion where they were drilled. in. Harry (Greekdiver on the other boards) is who ordered the Rob Allens custom for the Abellan Denton. He is right now testing a new Abellan Denton 130. He had to get run of the mill shafts to test it and he drilled a hole way back and pinned it. From what he told me he has added those same pins with a drill press to a dozen shafts over the past 5 years himself and has never had one fail.
2) Reading your article, it sounds like your favorite shaft is the Vector, but your issue with it is the cost due to the UHT material?
In all honesty my testing thus far still has me favoring the Rob Allen 7.5mm. The 8mm Vector Marine shaft is not a UHT shaft and the price was very reasonable. I think its a great shaft but for this gun I have not found the proper set-up. I don't know if you have seen the Videocean speargun video test that was posted on just about every forum a few months back but when the AD 120 was tested the highest kinetic energy was a 140cm x 8mm shaft with 2 400% bands. I have only tried 350% bands with the Vector Marine shaft so far. The few fish I have shot (groupers/Yellow Jacks/Muttons) have been pretty close range and the 8mm certainly has more punch on target than the 7.5mm and its noticeable. I have only had the opportunity to shoot one somewhat long shot and the shaft speed I'm used to with the 7.5mm was not there and the drop was considerable. This just has to do with same power pushing more mass. I'll add some more HP to that shaft and try again.
I may end up using both, I'm quite sure I will. One thing that did happen that has not before is shooting the Vector last trip out I shot a ~12# Cero Mackerel and the shooting line snapped (3/32" SS Cable) and this was only the 2nd dive trip with it. I have not had that happen before and this is the first shaft I've used on this gun with shark fins. I don't know why the line snapped but I wonder if that has something to do with. Although that hypothesis seems silly considering how many guns use shark fin shafts with the line through them, it most likely is coincidence. I had to chase this pissed off fish with my nearly new VM shaft in 55' of water swimming in 100' circles till it finally fell to the bottom. If someone were filming I'm sure it would have been hilarious.
3) There seems to be clear benefits to recessing the floppers or adding some kind of hydrodynamic enhancement (can you post a picture of this "cone" you mention?). Wondering why no one except Salvimar seems to be doing it? (shaft strength?). I've had regular flopper shafts snap off right where the pin for the flopper is drilled, but that was after being badly abused.
Tin Man already commented on the cone idea he had which I've PMed him about a few weeks back. I'll try it on a shaft and see how long it lasts and get back to everyone with the results.castronova wrote:Oh, and yes I tune my floppers once they need it. You can tune most of them with a pair of dull dykes or a nail set. It's not always easy though.
I'd love to see such a thorough write up on flopper tuning.
I'm really not an expert at any of this. I can try and show what I've learned but there are people much more versed in shafts than I and I'm hoping (and glad for those who have) they chime in. I believe Daryl had an old post on Spearboard about tuning floppers. Maybe someone can get him to chime in?
I would also love to see a discussion on the various standards for trigger mechanisms and shaft notches, as I have notices some very slight variations (particularly on euro shafts) that make me wonder about mating various triggers with various shafts..
castronova wrote:RichT, awesome that you stopped by. I actually have quite a few spearcrafters but haven't used them in years since I haven't had an american Mech gun but I do now. I shot a good majority of my first 10 or so wahoo with double flopper spearcrafter tri-tip shafts.
We would be glad to hear more from you in the future. I'm always interested in spearshaft design and I sure would like to know what products you have available as well.
P.S. I can't believe I have been on this forum since 2013. I didn't even remember this thread. I just looked above and I don't use a single shaft anymore that I started this thread with.
Bill McIntyre wrote:
Hi Rich. Its weird that I didn't seem this thread before but I'm glad you brought it back to life. I notice on your web site that you supply shafts for Red Tide (GR Tarr). A flew months ago I ordered an 8 mm flopper shaft from him and had to wait a few weeks since it wasn't what he usually carried. Did that shaft come from you? It had a mini rest tab but the tab didn't have a line attachment hole in it. Lately I've decided I like attaching the shooting line to the rest tab so that it isn't back there involved with the wishbones, so I drilled a hole in the tab. Would it be possible to order shaft direct from you with holes in the rest tabs? I'm not trying to cut GR out of the business, but simply trying to find the best way to get what I want.
I'm in the line to get an Abellan Denton 120 as soon as Harry has the new ones in stock and I'm not sure what choices of Hunt shafts he'll be offering. When I bought my Abellan Denton 110 I had Mori make me a 5/16" shaft with the front two inches necked down to 9/32" with 6 mm threads to mount a 9/32" slip tip. Could you do that along with two mini tabs and a rest tab with a hole? If so, would I order direct from you or through GR? Could you give me an idea what it would cost?
I hope you will be offering cones for your flopper shafts.
All of the production shafts we are currently building will be made with the hole in the rest tab as well as the first front fin.
Our threaded 5/16 shafts typically come with 5/16-24 threads but we can turn them to accommodate 6mm accessories.
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