ALL ABOUT REELS

All about spearguns and gear. Feel free to pimp your own manufacturing but be sure to wear flame retardant material if you are pushing b.s.

Re: ALL ABOUT REELS

Postby John Hughes » September 1st, 2016, 6:41 pm

Freeryde wrote:
phil herranen wrote:
Aussie wrote:Bill why wouldn't you knot it like dynemma? Also gave you noticed a change in performance? Assuming it's not a big arse gun you should be getting better penetration.

Back spliced line holds 100% of line strenth , a knot can cut the strenth by as much as 1/2 depending on the knot and line


This does not apply to dyneema right? I know mono strength is greatly compromised by an overhand knot but I don't think the same holds true for spectra etc. Even if it did the overhand knot would be in the doubled portion of the line if it was like the slip tip hollow spectra so it would not affect the overall breaking strength right?


just about any knot is going to reduce your breaking strength Joe but personally I don't sweat it as the breaking strength is so strong on spectra and I don't shoot fish that I really have to worry about it. Personally I worry more about knots that are going to slip with spectra and dyneema more than I worry about it reducing the breaking strength.

These guys shooting giant tuna and Grouper may have something else to say about it.
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Re: ALL ABOUT REELS

Postby John Hughes » September 8th, 2016, 2:19 pm

I just wanted to announce I think I found the absolute worst reel line out there. It's made by JBL.

On my recent Baja trip we did some reef hunting. My buddy who showed up with this set up had it spooled up properly from JBL and the first fish he shot it sucked down inside of itself on the spool and jammed. He barely made it to the surface and I think he was only about 20 ft down. LOL. Needless to say we respooled him with some proper Mori 3 mil that night and he was good to go.

here's a photo of what his spool looked like at end of day...

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Re: ALL ABOUT REELS

Postby John Hughes » September 8th, 2016, 2:53 pm

The reason I had some extra 3 mil laying around was I respooled my new big Ulusub because I wanted to get some more capacity out of it. I was only able to get 155' of Mori 3 mil on there before. I was sent some 2.5mil line from Matt at Red Triangle Spearfishing and wanted to give it a go. From my understanding, it's basically jacketed dyneema. I've shot 2 fish with it so far and didn't have any problem laying the brakes on it and it's not only a bit thicker than the regular dyneema I've used in the past, but courser as well. I like that. I also like the fact that I was able to get 240' of this stuff on that big Ulusub. Another thing I like is the bright color even though it's Pink so that when Spring comes and we are diving the mud for seabass I shouldn't have any problem following it down below.

this is the stuff he sent me


Stopper knot in case you don't know how to tie one


finished


I like the fact that these Ulusubs have a solid connection through the arbor on the spool. tight work


I wanted to see how much line was actually on there so I pulled it all off and counted it before respooling. This is always a good test to see if your line is going to tangle as it pulls free of the mess on the ground. Thinner line with no memory usually tangles in my experience. I was happy to see as I respooled it that it all pulled clean and it does the same thing in the water when pooled on the surface.


I'd also like to add that the Ulusub has got to be one of the smoothest reels I've ever used. I realize it's brand new and all, but the first few fish I've shot with it I was impressed. One thing on that reel I was surprised about is that there is basically no drag capability. I tried and tried to lock the drag down when I got it and it wouldn't change even though I cranked the nut tight. Fortunately, Jon with Ulusub was quick to respond to my email and told me it's not designed to tighten. It's basically just for 'line storage" is what he told me. He then went on to explain how I could make the changes to the washers to make it tighter but I decided not to. The reel is designed to have just enough drag on it so that it holds your line tight which it does. I basically use my hand as the brake by "braking" the line as it peels off in front of the gun. Some guys palm the reel like he does. Whatever. Just wanted to give everybody a heads up so they are not expecting something different as I was. Overall, I'm not bummed in the least bit and if I get a bad shot on a fish I can just drop the line and let the fish burn line off and run out of gas. With 240' now I have that option. I'm excited about having that option now and excited about seeing how this reel holds up to some abuse. So far it's working flawlessly and since it's so well made I suspect that will continue.

I was out diving yellows the other day and ended up with a late season surprise. I shot the fish deep so I was able to put a little pressure on it but for the most part I just let it take off. Not even a hicup, that reel is smmoooooooth!

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Re: ALL ABOUT REELS

Postby VangysWay » September 8th, 2016, 3:30 pm

Hell yeah, nice fish John!
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Re: ALL ABOUT REELS

Postby Bill McIntyre » September 8th, 2016, 3:42 pm

Nice boat too!
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Re: ALL ABOUT REELS

Postby Eric Bodj » September 8th, 2016, 8:34 pm

John your Mori gun is jealous of all the action your hatch had been seeing!! Nice fish, I bet Bill's happy to have finally have someone on his boat that can finally shoot fish ;)

How's the weight of that reel? I imagine it would affect the buoyancy of smaller guns and hybrids?
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Re: ALL ABOUT REELS

Postby John Hughes » September 9th, 2016, 8:36 am

Eric Bodj wrote:John your Mori gun is jealous of all the action your hatch had been seeing!! Nice fish, I bet Bill's happy to have finally have someone on his boat that can finally shoot fish ;)

How's the weight of that reel? I imagine it would affect the buoyancy of smaller guns and hybrids?


Good question on the weioght of the reel. It's so big I figured it was going to sink this Neptonics/Hatch gun for sure since the gun is so thin. Surprisingly, it doesn't but between the reel and the rear handle way back on the gun it does float nose up. For the size on that Ulusub, it's lighter than I thought it would be and seems to be quality made. Putting that gun on a hybrid I think you'd have the same effect. A small pipe gun may be another situation all together but I'm not sure there's even an option to mount those reels to a pipe gun?
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Re: ALL ABOUT REELS

Postby Freeryde » September 14th, 2016, 5:24 am

Wow nice late season bass John. I was thinking about going down there but went out and shot a tuna. After driving 140 miles round trip for the tuna I would rather have the Seabass. I love the big ulusub reel. I have it on my big ulusub but also put it on my Riffe 120x. That is a very thin gun and the huge reel looks funny on it but it sure works well!
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Re: ALL ABOUT REELS

Postby Behslayer » September 14th, 2016, 5:36 am

I'll look around in shop today for the actual numbers on what the Weight in water offset is for those reels. The Polymer portion of the Reel is not that heavy in water (Lower Specific Gravity than Metal) and the Lines float, so the offset is mostly related to the Metal portions. The big Reel is a nice source of Mass, and can improve the way a skinny gun shoots. We have a Radius adapter for Rail guns for those Reels, but the way we use them on our own guns is to recess them into the wooden stock.
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Re: ALL ABOUT REELS

Postby Behslayer » September 14th, 2016, 6:34 am

The way I calculate the weight in the water of a Bluewater Reel with line , swivel, and 2 #10 1" mounting screws is to take a piece of Teak and mount the reel. I put in the Salt Water Ballast tank set to 1.025 and add lead until that piece of teak with the reel is neutrally buoyant, ie very very slowly sinking. I leave this amount of lead taped to the piece of Teak and remove the Reel. I then put the piece of Teak back into the tank and add lead to that until it becomes neutrally buoyant. This lets me know the Water Weight of the Reel and Line. The nice thing about this reel is it adds quite a bit of Mass to the overall gun at the crux just infront of the handle, in my opinion this helps a little with maneuverability and Recoil management.

Total weight of Reel, Line, Swivel, Screws out of water: 1.4lbs, 22.6oz, 640gr.

Total weight of Reel, Line, Swivel, Screws in the water: .14lbs, 2.3oz, 65gr.

That being said, even on a big gun which can take 1000grams of Lead total ballast, in the fine tuning 10grams and or the position of 10grams can make a difference whether a gun is flat, nose heavy, or handle heavy. Will this Reel sink your gun like a stone? Grab a 2.3oz sinker and tye it to your gun in the Reel position and you will know.
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Re: ALL ABOUT REELS

Postby John Hughes » September 14th, 2016, 4:35 pm

Behslayer wrote:The way I calculate the weight in the water of a Bluewater Reel with line , swivel, and 2 #10 1" mounting screws is to take a piece of Teak and mount the reel. I put in the Salt Water Ballast tank set to 1.025 and add lead until that piece of teak with the reel is neutrally buoyant, ie very very slowly sinking. I leave this amount of lead taped to the piece of Teak and remove the Reel. I then put the piece of Teak back into the tank and add lead to that until it becomes neutrally buoyant. This lets me know the Water Weight of the Reel and Line. The nice thing about this reel is it adds quite a bit of Mass to the overall gun at the crux just infront of the handle, in my opinion this helps a little with maneuverability and Recoil management.

Total weight of Reel, Line, Swivel, Screws out of water: 1.4lbs, 22.6oz, 640gr.

Total weight of Reel, Line, Swivel, Screws in the water: .14lbs, 2.3oz, 65gr.

That being said, even on a big gun which can take 1000grams of Lead total ballast, in the fine tuning 10grams and or the position of 10grams can make a difference whether a gun is flat, nose heavy, or handle heavy. Will this Reel sink your gun like a stone? Grab a 2.3oz sinker and tye it to your gun in the Reel position and you will know.


that's really helpful Jon, thanks. It's nice to have those #'s rather than having to buy the item and figure it out from there.


And yes Joe, that reel looks a little funny on that skinny gun but I don't really care. I'm excited about all that line capacity and can't wait to get in a position in the blue where I actually need it!
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Re: ALL ABOUT REELS

Postby Erizo » February 2nd, 2018, 9:32 pm

Can anyone recommend a reel line for a 120 Abellan and the reel that comes with it?
I really like the line that came with my Ulusub, it is yellow and I believe is dynema 2mm. But the Ulusub is a blue water gun with 4 bands. What I like about the line is that is not abrasive and it seats flat and doesn't seem to bury deep. I put that line in to my RA 120 reel and I held on to that line on a 45lb fish and it was manageble.

Do you think the Dynema 2mm is fine? Do you recommend other options?

Thanks.
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Re: ALL ABOUT REELS

Postby Erizo » February 2nd, 2018, 10:59 pm

As of matter of fact I just put some of the 2mil dynema on the reel and I could only fit 120...is that enough? I would be more comfortable with 160 .
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Re: ALL ABOUT REELS

Postby John Hughes » February 3rd, 2018, 5:16 am

Erizo wrote:As of matter of fact I just put some of the 2mil dynema on the reel and I could only fit 120...is that enough? I would be more comfortable with 160 .


We would all be more comfortable with 160 but I think you fight the battle we all do as far as max capacity vs. manageability of reel line size. The thinner the diameter line, the more you get on the reel but it's generally less manageable as far as how much you can grab it and put pressure on the fish. If you're in the blue or a "let it run" guy, you definitely want more line dependent on specie you're hunting. If you're a "put the brakes on it" guy you should be OK for the most part. I like to put the brakes on it myself and most of my reels have 120 max on them. With that being said, I have been spooled 3-4 times on big fish in open water or when I've taken a shot on a big fish below 40'.

If you're more comfortable with more line I would think the only option you have is get a bigger reel or go down in reel line diameter.
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Re: ALL ABOUT REELS

Postby Bill McIntyre » February 3rd, 2018, 7:53 am

John said it right. Unless you have a big reel, its as question of being thick enough to grab vs. having enough of it. I'm not using reels any more, but when I was I liked to grab it and put the brakes on, and I used a 3mm line that I got from Mori. But as I recall I could only get about 110 feet of it on a Riffe reel. That same reel came with my Abbelan 120 and I sold it for that same reason. I figured that if I ever went back to using a reel, I would want something bigger that would hold enough thicker line.

Since you say your line lays flat, I'm guessing it might be this stuff from Neptonics.

https://neptonics.com/spectraline/

Phil Herrenan suggested it as an alternative to cable for shooting line for tuna. I tried some and it was a bit too soft for me. It was hard to keep it away from me when pulling on a fish, but it is hollow and braidable, so it would lie flat on a reel.

Another possibility might be this stuff.

https://benthicoceansports.com/collecti ... -dyneema-1

Of course at 1.9 mm you might not get much more on the reel.

I'm using the 1.7 mm version as shooting line on my Abbellans.

https://benthicoceansports.com/collecti ... ff-dyneema

Its a lot stiffer than other braided lines and not as tangly and can be crimped just like mono. That would give you a lot more line on the reel, but of course be harder to grab.
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Re: ALL ABOUT REELS

Postby Behslayer » February 3rd, 2018, 4:45 pm

Two things really count towards how much line you should be carrying on your reel.

-What kind of fish you are shooting.

-What depth you are shooting at.

Sometime people overlook the latter. If you are shooting fish at 80'.. you're going to want 200' of line.
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Re: ALL ABOUT REELS

Postby Bill McIntyre » February 3rd, 2018, 4:51 pm

In California there is one other thing. If you are in a thick kelp bad, it almost doesn't matter how deep it is. The fish runs under, around, back and forth. I had a fish almost force me to turn loose of a 125 foot float line and it ended up tied up about 3 feet below with surface. But it went under kelp before that, and I was being pulled straight down.
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Re: ALL ABOUT REELS

Postby Erizo » February 3rd, 2018, 8:18 pm

Thanks For the advice.
There seems to be a few other reels available that might work. But looking back, the times when I have put the brakes is when the fish has settle enough for me to be able to grab the line. So it is not my nature to immediately grab the line, if anything I cover the reel with my hand a little so I can add a little drag to it.
I could get a bigger reel but I think looking in to a 1.7 mil line first might be a prudent first step. That might just give me enough to get me in the 150' range.
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Re: ALL ABOUT REELS

Postby John Hughes » February 4th, 2018, 4:54 am

Bill McIntyre wrote:In California there is one other thing. If you are in a thick kelp bad, it almost doesn't matter how deep it is. The fish runs under, around, back and forth. I had a fish almost force me to turn loose of a 125 foot float line and it ended up tied up about 3 feet below with surface. But it went under kelp before that, and I was being pulled straight down.


I'd agree. Even if your bed is thick, sometimes you may work the stringers on the outside and end up shooting fish on the bottom. I was actually on your boat one time Bill on the edge of a thick bed and saw a fish on the bottom. I dove to 45'and shot a 60lb fish that was on the bottom at 55'. By the time I hit the surface, that fish had run 60' straight across the bottom and I was spooled. Even if you're in a thick bed, sometimes they can find a pocket of clean water and utilize it to spool you. I had this happen on a high 50's seabass one time in a really thick bed in only 25' of water.

I think with most things, the capacity of your reel vs line size is going to be a compromise and you have to keep all this in mind and dive accordingly. You also always have to keep in mind even if you have 300' of line thinking you're safe, something can always go sideways and you may come tight to the fish after only 20'. Your reel may jam for whatever reason and you have to have a plan for that. Same can be said for band tangles which applies to reels and floatlines.
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Re: ALL ABOUT REELS

Postby Nate Baker » February 4th, 2018, 9:04 am

I’ve always approached it with the idea that a seabass isn’t a fish you fight. You either let it run or stop it by clamping down on the reel. So diameter isn’t much of a factor, which to me means err on the side of more line. I have 200’.

Later in the season when you’re doing more open water stuff you can change line or switch to float line.
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Re: ALL ABOUT REELS

Postby Bill McIntyre » February 4th, 2018, 9:25 am

If I ever went back to reels I think I might try the Ulusub. I’ve seen a few on my boat and people seem to like them. And they are big enough to let you have it both ways- thick line and lots of it.
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Re: ALL ABOUT REELS

Postby Behslayer » February 4th, 2018, 11:20 am

One of the main reasons for problems is that guys will encounter a good fish on their first few drops of the day. In the excitement to get in the water, they didn't test the pull (drag) of the their reel and have the drag set fairly tight. They shoot a Speedster and it takes off at 70mph and that little bit of extra drag causes the line to bury and snag in the spool.
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Re: ALL ABOUT REELS

Postby Behslayer » February 4th, 2018, 11:53 am

Here's another problem I've seen firsthand. The general category is being new to Reels. Many of us oldtimers, (with the exception of the Potts Reels, which are still way ahead of their time, and Riffe who made some good ones, but they cost too mch at the time for most divers, and their lines were useless on the reef) we grew up using terrible reels. they would literally explode into little pieces. It was common to have them break right in half. they couldn't hold hardly 100' of line and that didn't matter much because they came with kitestring with 50lbs breaking strength. I remember using Fly Reels, Ice fishing Reels, Wreck diving reels, anything we could find. So. we learned how to use small terrible reels shooting small fish and gradually moved into better ones to where we are today. We had a long road of experience.

Today we have a phenomenon where we have a new generation of Spearfishermen who can dive real deep and are very knowledgeable freedivers, but lack depth of experience in Spearfishing. I see it a lot. The equipment is not the weak point it used to be. the reels have good capacity, the lines are 800-1000lbs breaking strength, the guns hit their targets. What is lacking is a solid foundation in experience and technique using reels, before tapping into a Wahoo or other big fish.

The most important thing new to Reels divers need to have in their mind is Line Maintenance. The other day, I was diving with one of my dive partners here. He's a PFI Level II instructor and has been teaching Scuba 5 days a week for the past 6 years. He's in the water every day. He can freedive to 200'. He's been spearfishing seriously for two years. So he's a Much better diver than me, and I been spearfishing for 35 years. That's the disconnect.. So he nails a Beauty of an Uku on the bottom at 100'. I meet him halfway and watch him as we surface. He's spooled by the time we surface. 270' of line out. I'm keeping a hopeful eye out for another fish to show up and he is pulling the speared fish in. I swim down to check on the shot placement and it looks good. As I surface I look up to him to give him the thumbs up and he literally looks like a Bird in a Nest.. Lines EVERYWHERE all around him. around his neck, snorkel, weight belt, fins, literally he is within a giant birds nest of 1000lb dyneema. I grab the main line and swim away and tell him "Deal with your lines and get your shit together. Do you know what can happen?" and at that point two Big Grey Reef Sharks show up alllll lit up and start making passes at the fish. Bad situation. He was so entangled, it would have been very difficult for him to find all of the cut points as he was being dragged straight down by a 300lb shark. So I'm still swimming forward pulling the fish up and he gets free of the tangles and swims over. It's still not a good situation. The sharks are being very aggressive. I need to swim down and poke them away, he needs to pull in the lines, but there is still a huge mess of tangles at the other end of the rope. Much to the sharks disappointment we land the fish. And it takes my buddy a few minutes to sort out the lines and get them back into his reel.

The lesson in the story is the lesson of Line Maintenance. When you Shoot a fish in open water with a Reel. Swim in a straight line or use the current to let your reel line you pull up play behind you. Your gun can be around your shoulder. If done correctly, a 100' length of line becomes a 50' loop. Much more manageable. You can also then cut left or right if there isn't much current and leave a folded, but manageable path of line which might only extend out 20 or so ft. But you know where it is and what it's doing.. One glance at the fish. One glance at the lines. And if you are fishing from a boat.. they need to understand where that line is when they come to get you.
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Re: ALL ABOUT REELS

Postby John Hughes » February 4th, 2018, 12:31 pm

Nate Baker wrote:I’ve always approached it with the idea that a seabass isn’t a fish you fight. You either let it run or stop it by clamping down on the reel.



That depends on a few different factors Nate. How much you suck as a diver (me) and if you're willing to put yourself in a situation repetitively of digging fish out of 55-60' or potentially deeper. I prefer not to do that too often so I take solid shots and put the brakes on them. In regards to clamping down on the reel, I prefer to fight the fish on the line like you would a floatline. I find I have better control over pressure when handling the line as compared to palming the reel. Maybe it also goes back to my fishing background where it was ingrained in me never to touch the spool when a fish was running.

Behslayer makes very good points on line maintenance and needs to be repeated as often as possible. I learned the importance of that lesson by almost dying a few times. :ugh: I'm always very aware of current direction and always try to swim up current as I'm fighting a fish in open water so the line trails downhill.
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Re: ALL ABOUT REELS

Postby Bill McIntyre » February 4th, 2018, 12:43 pm

Behslayer wrote:Here's another problem I've seen firsthand. The general category is being new to Reels. Many of us oldtimers, (with the exception of the Potts Reels, which are still way ahead of their time, and Riffe who made some good ones, but they cost too mch at the time for most divers, and their lines were useless on the reef) we grew up using terrible reels. they would literally explode into little pieces. It was common to have them break right in half. they couldn't hold hardly 100' of line and that didn't matter much because they came with kitestring with 50lbs breaking strength. I remember using Fly Reels, Ice fishing Reels, Wreck diving reels, anything we could find. So. we learned how to use small terrible reels shooting small fish and gradually moved into better ones to where we are today. We had a long road of experience.



I can't resist. :)

In the early 1950s, there we're no spearfishing reels, so I used a Penn Senator. It was a bit heavy though.
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Re: ALL ABOUT REELS

Postby John Hughes » February 4th, 2018, 5:37 pm

That's amazing Bill. You've been diving for almost 70 years?!!

The stories of your guys early experiences with reels are crazy. We are so lucky to have the equipment we have today.
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Re: ALL ABOUT REELS

Postby Bill McIntyre » February 4th, 2018, 6:29 pm

Yes I have John. You would think I'd finally get good at it, but its not working out that way. :)

More on the reel. We would fill them with stainless cable that we got at the local airport. I'm not sure, but I think it was thicker than the stuff we use on slip tips. And sometimes it still wasn't enough. The Goliath Grouper would wrap it arounds those bridge pilings and then break it.

Just once I had one run straight out in the open away from the bridge. The reel was attached to the barrel with hose clamps. When the fish hit the end of the cable, it jerked me against a piling and crushed a lot of barnacles, and tore the reel off of the reel seat. The reel seat was still attached to the barrel, but the reel went skipping away across the bottom.
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