Abellan gun evolution

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Abellan gun evolution

Postby castronova » October 29th, 2016, 1:34 pm

I see a bunch of posts about Abellan discussing different aspects of the gun. Some of the critical comments seem to come from older models. It seems people don't realize some of the changes that have come over the years so I thought I'd post some photos and give a short history.

I bought my first Abellan, Denton 120 back in 2012. At that time there existed a 98, 110, and 120cm models. All of them were very similar in shape profile. They were pretty light guns but could provide excellent shaft speed up to 7.5mm in diameter on the 120cm model. The provided shafts back then were very soft Sandvick stainless steel.

In 2013 the profile of the stock changed. The belly was thickened and the gun made more massive. The metal parts were also made from a thicker gauge, 1.4mm to 1.6mm. The mass of the gun allowed the power to increase by moving the shaft to 8mm.

In 2014 the first model bigger than 120cm in length was introduced, the 130cm Denton. The Denton 130 was simply an extended 120cm and also shoots an 8mm shaft. This gun really pushed the power limit of a 2 band 8mm shaft gun with down range power that tested passed 20' through a 5" foam target.

In 2015 came the Albacore model. The first version was a 130cm version that had increased mass and was the first model to use 3 bands, at 14mm each. Due to the shape of the handle and small profile of the gun overall there was a decision to make a 140cm as well due to demand. The first guns tested were those owned by myself, Harry and Justin. They were basically prototypes. They shot very well but some of the details were still being worked out with the muzzle and shape. The trigger guard was made full to accommodate float lines.

This picture is the newest version, again, with some prototype details. The handle is carbon fiber sleeved with an epoxy and sand covered coating. Very sleek looking and functional. The buttpad mount is carbon fiber and the new pad a much better material. The new muzzle and guard stainless steel thickness is 2.1mm thick.

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The new muzzle has more wood extending into the cage. It allows the bands to lay perfect, without overlap, while the user just loads one band at a time. There is no special effort needed, it just happens by design.

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Here are 3 generations of muzzles. From left to right... 2017 Albacore 2.1mm thick with new wood profile, 2014 130cm Denton, 2012 120cm Denton.

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Here is the new back end of the gun. The left is the new albacore, the right and older denton. The space under the bands were brought up to add mass to the gun without adding any increase to the profile. This area is where the bands are at the highest where they sit on the shaft fins. As you move forward toward the muzzle the track starts to pop out of the gun. Very clever.

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The future should see a few more small detail fixes. The carbon fiber touches will likely become permanent along with a CF ballast door at the muzzle if they can be made locally at a good cost. The shape of the handle may become more efficient too, discussions are being had about possibly offering a few handle sizes as well. It takes time but I'd guess by next year most of the gun will also be made in the USA. Probably everything but the mech. It's been a process but it's in the works.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby Donzi Paul » October 29th, 2016, 5:11 pm

Very nice and thought out evolution, thanks for the comprehensive history. :eusa-clap:

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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby Bill McIntyre » October 29th, 2016, 8:02 pm

I got my Albacore 130 Wednesday if anyone in the area wants to take a look at it. I've had a knee infection for two weeks. If it doesn't get better soon I may be offering the gun at a bargain price. :)
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby phil herranen » October 29th, 2016, 8:09 pm

Cool I can Read what you typed here , overy on weird board I had to scroll back and forth and was over it after two lines , guns look good ,do you have a side shot of the muzzle with the band's loaded ?
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby castronova » October 30th, 2016, 5:32 am

phil herranen wrote:Cool I can Read what you typed here , overy on weird board I had to scroll back and forth and was over it after two lines , guns look good ,do you have a side shot of the muzzle with the band's loaded ?


Phil, not sure what you mean but this is the same post on spearboard. I thought I'd share it here as a lot of people aren't over there.

I do not have a side shot with bands loaded. Weather looks good this next weekend so I should be getting the gun ready soon. I'll take a picture.

(edit: Phil maybe you meant the formatting? Bill Mac, I have your line loop. I'll be getting it to you asap)
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby Bill McIntyre » October 30th, 2016, 6:36 am

castronova wrote: Bill Mac, I have your line loop. I'll be getting it to you asap)


Great!

Will that new muzzle fit on the wood shape of the old Denton?
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby phil herranen » October 30th, 2016, 7:03 am

castronova wrote:
phil herranen wrote:Cool I can Read what you typed here , overy on weird board I had to scroll back and forth and was over it after two lines , guns look good ,do you have a side shot of the muzzle with the band's loaded ?


Phil, not sure what you mean but this is the same post on spearboard. I thought I'd share it here as a lot of people aren't over there.

I do not have a side shot with bands loaded. Weather looks good this next weekend so I should be getting the gun ready soon. I'll take a picture.

(edit: Phil maybe you meant the formatting? Bill Mac, I have your line loop. I'll be getting it to you asap)

Ya the format, over there the pics are huge and to see the whole.thing you have to scroll way right and left the see the whole thing and to read the text
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby castronova » October 30th, 2016, 7:19 am

When I first posted over there the photos were straight from the camera and 6,000 pixels wide. I reduced them to ~800 pixels now.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby Bill McIntyre » October 30th, 2016, 7:43 am

JP, I hope you won't mind my getting a bit off topic.

One thing Castranova didn't mention. Its not really a design feature of the gun, but simply of the shaft that came with mine. The shaft is 11/32" necked down to 5/16". The shaft has a rest tab, and the rest tab has a hole in it for attaching shooting line. I was expecting that, but what surprised me a bit was that there are no holes in the rear fins. I'm definitely going to try it with the shooting line attached to the rest tab. :)

And while I'm at it, I'll mention something in the way I'm rigging mine. I'm so used to using mid handled guns where the float line attaches behind the handle, so I struggled a bit with my Denton, not quite knowing how to roll it over without the float line getting in the way of the handle. I finally settled on a loop of mono attached to that little stainless eye. It keeps the float line over to the right side out of the way of my hand.

Of course this means that your gun is attached to your float line, which could be good or bad. I like the fact that I can just turn loose of the gun to fight a fish, and when the float hits that loop, the gun will not get away. I can pretty much ignore it. But if you shoot a 200 pound bluefin, then your gun is going down with the float. That might not are so good if your float never came back up.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby Behslayer » October 30th, 2016, 7:59 am

I always wonder about that Rest Tab connected shaft. A friend brought one over this week from Europe, a Hunt 8.5mm. He liked it because he said if you thread the fish it toggles up better. My concern was whether it would interfere with trajectory, but I guess it doesn't in tests? I wondered why they used this and I thought it had something to do specifically with Rollerguns as helping to prevent the shooting line from being caught under the roller bands and snagging. Is there a benefit to a classic banded gun in helping reduce the chance of band tangles by using a more forward attached shooting line? Maybe JPC knows?

Bill that line retainer looks suspicious and goes against the idea of a break away system where your gun does not get lost with the rest of your gear. I've lost 3 complete buoy/bungee/shaft set ups. (granted this was hunting Dogtooth and there were currents and sharks may have been involved, but I've seen friends floats pop and collapse hunting Yellowfin as well, not to mention, sharks, sea lions, marlins,). Why not just use a simple mini snubber?
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby Bill McIntyre » October 30th, 2016, 8:15 am

Jon, I know no nothing about the pros and cons of attaching the line to the rest tab. I was simply commenting that the Hunt shaft came that way so that other buyers would not be surprised when they got their guns. I'll defer to JP and Harry on that one.

I agree that big fish could take the gun away from me with it rigged with that mono loop. Its just that my normal hunting doesn't let me shoot fish that big. If I ever get stupid enough to try the tuna chase again, I'll definitely remove that. But meanwhile, it solves a problem. No one else seems to bitch about the float line getting in between the handle and their hand, but it bugs me and I'm afraid I'm going to miss a shot at a fish while trying to get the float line out of the way.

Could you elaborate on this simple snubber? Will it hold the float line off to the right and keep it from getting between my hand and the handle?
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby castronova » October 30th, 2016, 8:45 am

Bill, the new muzzle will line up with older model Dentons.

As far as the Hunt shaft, I'm not sure there is specific reasoning or not for the connection point. When I had Dean make me shafts for the first Abellan 140 I had him add a forth tab even though there is only 3 bands, just for the line connection. When given the chance I rather not have the line and wishbone in the same spot. I don't know if it makes any difference but it makes me feel better about the situation.

This last week was the first time I used the Hunt shaft (after my Vector Marine shaft bent on a tuna from a slip-tip slide ring that failed to let line slide through) that had the hole in the rest tab. I shot a few yellowfin tuna with it and I didn't see any change in accuracy in the real world. One thing of speculation on accuracy would be that the weight of the cable would drag dead center when the shaft starts to reach the end of the shooting line, keeping the shaft level through the entire flight. The difference being when a shaft connected at the rear starts get to the end of the shooting line it pulls the back down, the nose goes up and you miss high on a long shot. This has been seen in testing.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby Behslayer » October 30th, 2016, 12:53 pm

I like the idea because it's 1/2 as much shooting line making a loop right at your bands. So less likely to grab your bands at all. So many times shots are thrown off by shooting lines temporarily interacting with bands. You would only know looking at slow motion replay with a good angle but it happens. Think about as a shaft is thrown forward there's a 5' length of shooting line which essentially makes a loop right at the muzzle as the shaft moves forward. As the connection point passes the muzzle, it does so with the bands as it's on the shark fins. The band ends/wishbone could interact with the shooting line. With the shaft connected at the mid point that loop is made up of half the length. As the bands reach the muzzle area, the shooting line is already being pulled off the bottom of the gun. I thought it was originally done for Rollers to keep the shooting line from passing the muzzle at the same time as the sticky end of the bands. But I think it's probably good for avoiding band tangles on Classic band guns as well.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby castronova » October 31st, 2016, 3:23 am

I just remembered, I asked Dean to make a tab up further for the line just like Hunt. Not for a rest tab but to move the line forward. While he could make it straight he said he could not get the shaft to near perfect tolerances with 2 spots to straighten as he could with 1. He recommended keeping them spaced evenly so I listened to the expert.

Hopefully I remember that correctly.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby Freeryde » October 31st, 2016, 6:43 am

I love the abellan guns. I have never shot one but I feel like they are similar to my Riffe 120x that I have modified quite a bit. Since Bill got us way off topic into shooting lines etc. Bill how do you like the spectra shooting line? Looks like you are still using crimps instead of the spliced loop in the hollow spectra?
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby Bill McIntyre » October 31st, 2016, 7:59 am

X
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby Bill McIntyre » October 31st, 2016, 8:00 am

Joe, that photo is deceiving you. That shooting line is the coated thin cable. I'm a little low on mono and I'm going to have to re rig after I put a line loop on the side of the gun anyway, so I just used the cable. I don't think crimps would work on that hollow spectra.

I'm not so sure how I like the spectra. I've never had it tangle on a shot, but it's kind of a pain in the ass reloading in the water with that soft stuff all around you. Also, since it has absolutely no stretch, you have to make sure you pull it very tight around every turn. If there is any slack at all it lets the shaft fall off of the muzzle. With mono there is a bit of stretch so it can take up the slack around the wraps and it also bows out a bit where it goes around things if the tension is relaxed. If I ever try to go after tuna I'll rig with the spectra but for White Sea bass and yellowtail I think I'll stick with
mono.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby Bill McIntyre » October 31st, 2016, 11:27 am

Its always interesting to see how the same post here and on Spearboard can lead in entirely different directions. In some cases that can be a plus, since its always nice to see different opinions and comments, but in other cases its just weird. I was just reading over there about concerns that the thin wood over the handle might be too weak, so I went down in the garage to look at my gun to see if I was missing something. With that stainless plate screwed to the wood, I don't know how the hell I could break it if I wanted to. I don't plan to use it as a crowbar, and its the thin wood that permits the handle to be so high in the first place.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby castronova » October 31st, 2016, 12:46 pm

Bill McIntyre wrote:Its always interesting to see how the same post here and on Spearboard can lead in entirely different directions. In some cases that can be a plus, since its always nice to see different opinions and comments, but in other cases its just weird. I was just reading over there about concerns that the thin wood over the handle might be too weak, so I went down in the garage to look at my gun to see if I was missing something. With that stainless plate screwed to the wood, I don't know how the hell I could break it if I wanted to. I don't plan to use it as a crowbar, and its the thin wood that permits the handle to be so high in the first place.


Bill, I do not get it.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby Bill McIntyre » October 31st, 2016, 2:02 pm

In general its a very good thing that I'm banned from Spearboard, but now and then I see something that begs for a reply. The Impaler Spearguns guy just said the following:

Ar 15 grips is another example - I use 25$ hogue grips (usa) on mine - and on the few other comapaies i have seen with ar type handle systems- they have the A2 grips for 4$ on them. If you allow customers to see and feel both - they will go for the hogue - 100% of the time- it's no contest.

Someone please tell him that he is wrong. I much prefer the A2 to the Hogue, and I know I'm not alone. He is flat wrong about the 100%.

When Tin Man was getting started selling those things, he sent me a frame and a wide choice of grips. There is a staple that holds the push rod in the Wong guns, and he asked me to check all my Wongs and tell him how far the staple was from the front end of the cut-out in each gun so he could put a groove in the frames to accommodate that staple. In turn, I could keep the handle of my choice (and pay for it) and send the others back. I kept the A2.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby castronova » October 31st, 2016, 4:55 pm

Someone else is going to have to help you with that. I'm trying to stick to my threads and, in all honesty, even then I'm getting closer and closer to not posting on any forums at all.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby Bill McIntyre » October 31st, 2016, 6:41 pm

I didn't really expect you to post that. I was just venting over the bullshit.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby castronova » November 1st, 2016, 6:24 am

I know, I guess I was too.

I may ban myself from there pretty soon.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby castronova » November 1st, 2016, 9:18 am

Here you go Phil. I didn't realize until I unloaded the gun that I had a fingerprint on the lens and really didn't want to load it again in the house. The last photo is either Harry's or Victors, not sure.

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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby Bill McIntyre » November 1st, 2016, 9:51 am

castronova wrote:I know, I guess I was too.

I may band myself from there pretty soon.


But then you'd miss a chance to discuss Religion and Politics with Marcus and his merry band of malcontents. :)

But I was just wading through the SB version of this thread and did see something I wanted to ask about. I hope management doesn't mind my cross posting, but there are different questions and answer in each site, all pertaining to the same first post.

I also just got a Mythicon Erevos and the CF is really sweet on that gun. It shoots great too. The thing I like about the Abellan in comparison though is that my Denton 120 will float with the shaft in but it still shoots great. The Mythicon sinks like a dropping anchor. This is something that is strived for with the Denton model and an aspect I would not like to have go away. I'd imagine to add any CF over the top you would probably need to add wood? Or remove lead like you said before?

I love the fact I can have the gun float next to me while I adjust my weight belt, help a buddy, etc. all while the gun is loaded and that is with a gopro mount and gopro attached.


You mentioned the Denton, but I wanted to clarify whether the Albacore 130 also floats with the shaft in. My Albacore hasn't been in the water yet, but floating with the shaft in is something I really like about my Denton. Its the first gun I've ever had that floated with the shaft it, but I like it so much that I wonder why they all don't do that. Its so great to be able to just turn loose and have the gun sit there on the surface. I guess scuba divers really need a gun that sinks, but free divers don't.

I don't know whether my knee is quite ready to try out the new gun, but I might as well take it down the harbor and throw it of the dock. I'll not only find out that it floats, but I can get a head start moving ballast between the muzzle and the handle to get the balance like I like it before I use it the first time.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby castronova » November 1st, 2016, 10:06 am

My Albacore does not float, unfortunately. The gun requires more lead and that added to the additional shaft weight takes over positive buoyancy. I absolutely love that my 120 floats. It's a characteristic of the gun most people do not realize exists and probably don't see it's value if they have never experienced it.

On the other hand I have a GoPro and a mount on my gun so maybe your's will float?
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby Bill McIntyre » November 1st, 2016, 10:33 am

Well hell! I better head for the harbor.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby castronova » November 1st, 2016, 11:41 am

Bill McIntyre wrote:Well hell! I better head for the harbor.


Let us know.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby Bill McIntyre » November 1st, 2016, 12:18 pm

It sunk until I removed every bit of lead shot, Then it barely floated with the butt up about 10 degrees from vertical. Does it need that shot to shoot straight? And now I'm wondering if adding a line loop and a loading tab will sink it.

This is disappointing. Since my other Abellan floated I assumed that all Abellans floated. I knew it had a thicker shaft but I also knew that it had a lot more wood. I guess I should know better than to make assumptions.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby castronova » November 1st, 2016, 12:46 pm

Bill McIntyre wrote:It sunk until I removed every bit of lead shot, Then it barely floated with the butt up about 10 degrees from vertical. Does it need that shot to shoot straight? And now I'm wondering if adding a line loop and a loading tab will sink it.

This is disappointing. Since my other Abellan floated I assumed that all Abellans floated. I knew it had a thicker shaft but I also knew that it had a lot more wood. I guess I should know better than to make assumptions.


Some people are really picky about how the gun is ballast. I think I have all the lead out of mine too. You can always try it. Fill that compartment with something buoyant at it will help. Of course adding the tab and line guide are not going to help you out.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby Bill McIntyre » November 1st, 2016, 2:05 pm

I found a piece of divinacel foam that Daryl Wong sent me many years ago. It was shaped perfectly to fit inside a Wong handle, but I cut it up and put a couple of pieces into the muzzle compartment and then had a small piece left to stick into the handle. I don't know how much it will help, but it sure can't hurt.

I suppose another step would be to glue those foam pieces into the muzzle compartment and then leave off the steel cover. That would look pretty tacky, so I won't do it until I see how it is with the foam.

I guess its a good thing that I have that after-market butt pad on the gun. That probably ads some buoyancy.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby AJP » November 1st, 2016, 10:42 pm

I remember seeing this earlier handle/butt from searching some time back, or perhaps it was just a prototype. In any event, it is prior to 2010 apparently. In the second pic, the older style is shown to the right of the one we recognize from today.

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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby castronova » November 2nd, 2016, 5:32 am

Very cool. I remember seeing that photo of the earlier gun with the metal butt section (not sure I knew it was an Abellan though). You can also see it has a standard forward mech while the newer version has a reverse mech.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby Behslayer » November 2nd, 2016, 5:54 am

Bill, don't you want the gun to sink slowwwwwwly when it's loaded? That's how I always like my guns. People who have never built and ballasted a gun don't understand that it comes down to a very small increment in the end. People are always surprised if they are visiting the shop while I'm balancing and ballasting a gun to see what it comes down to. A big gun might take 1000 grams of lead for it to be neutral, but with 990gr. it's a floater, and with 1010gr. It's a sinker.. same with the balancing. An inch in either way and the gun is either nose light/heavy or butt light/heavy. If you want to change the ballast of that gun, it would take 5 minutes and a steady hand. I never seen one of those guns in person, but from the pics that JPC has put all over I've seen that there is a sealed but uncovered Ballast compartment at the mid point, looks like a bunch of lead shot with epoxy poured into it. You could drill out a plug of Lead. Then fill with a wood plug. Then seal over. Or if any of your friends have a milling machine they could mill out some lead in a minute. One trick would be.. Take some foam and add increments of foam until your gun floats like you want it to. Then take that foam and add increments of lead to it until it sinks the foam to neutral. This is the weight of the lead you want to remove. Then remove quite a bit more, so you can use those front and rear ballast compartments to balance the gun to your liking. JPC. you send me up that gun and pay shipping and I'll send it back to you the next day done.

Now one thing that all of the above means, is that if you ballast a gun wherever those things are made with a european 8.5mm shaft, and then take the gun and send it over to the USA and match it to an American 11/32" Shaft the same length, you are going to get some weight difference. Not a lot.. but as said above the difference between a Sinker and a Floater is just a few grams.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby Freeryde » November 2nd, 2016, 6:31 am

I like my guns neutral like Jon's ulusub. I have a 4 band 67" ulusub. It weighs about 13lbs if I remember correctly, but it is balanced so well that under water I can littlerally balance it on the top of my finger under the handle and it stays right there. Everyone who try's it is blown away by how effortless it is to carry in the water even though it is a beast on land. I have had sinkers and floater guns. Guns that sink without the shaft in are terrible for free diving. Im not a huge fan of guns floating with the shaft in either. I added small side stocks to my Riffe 120x and purposely weighted it to be slightly tip heavy and sink with the shaft in. Tip heavy makes it easier to swing IMO and the gun hangs in a downward pointing position while breathing up. Also I will lay my gun on the bottom when I spot a lobster and want to use both hands. I really like the abellan stainless muzzle and very rear placed reverse mech. I travel with spearguns a lot and many times it comes down to inches to try and not go over on length restrictions for oversize baggage and be forced to pay hundreds of dollars. Weight is commonly an issue as well so a lighter gun that can still shoot with comparable power and accuracy to a longer heavier one is always a bonus.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby castronova » November 2nd, 2016, 6:54 am

Jon, I do appreciate it but I'm at my boat that's in the water everyday and will ballast it there. Unless something is funky it should be easy to make right.

The Abellans have a compartment at the muzzle that is covered by a stainless plate. The guns come with lead shot inside. That shot is not epoxied in place, it is free. The user can remove as much as they want. The cover on the bottom of the handle also covers a lead shot compartment. Again, the user can add and/or remove lead shot from the muzzle or handle. The albacore models have a third lead ballast epoxied in and fixed right in front of the trigger guard.

I like my guns a little muzzle heavy too. My 120 will float with the butt at the surface or just under and the muzzle pointing down 20 degrees or so. It will float but it's buoyancy is such that a wave or small nudge will make it start to sink very very slow. I think this is perfect. I don't want it so light its bobbing on the surface like a cork (this is exactly what Jon said sentence one on his last post).

The Ulusub 165 I had was absolutely perfectly balanced just like Joe described above. I also had to show people how effortless the gun was to move considering it's size and weight. There is not doubt Jon has that dialed in. I should probably pay more attention to it myself. I tend to make changes on the fly when the gun is new and honestly just get so used to shooting the gun that even switching from 8.5mm to 11/32" doesn't even cross my mind. It may make a small difference but I don't notice it. I just go.

The front compartment on the Abellans has changes in the works. The cover may go from stainless to carbon fiber. It already went from a exterior cap to recessed. This really doesn't make any difference except for aesthetics. I know they were working on shaped weights and some other things too.

I do agree with the traveling part Joe. The weight being a bigger concern than the length to a certain point.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby Bill McIntyre » November 2nd, 2016, 7:56 am

I see that JP beat me to it while I was finishing breakfast, but I'll reiterate that I really do like my gun floating with the shaft in. Over the years I think maybe three guys have brought nice home made guns on my boat that floated. The were very good spear fishermen so I figured they must know what they were doing, but I've always had guns that sank with the shaft in until I got the Abellan Denton. It doesn't float like a cork- it just barely floats with the butt touching the surface. And as JP said, the bird shot is loose in that forward compartment and in the butt, so I moved it back and forth until the gun floated about 60 degrees nose down. JP and I have both already said it, but its nice to be able to turn loose of the gun to adjust your mask, help your buddy, etc. and have it just sit there on the surface. One time I released my gun at 40 feet and watched it slowly float to the surface. If there is no current, you can just throw the gun off the boat and it will wait for you while you slide off the swim step. I like it so much that I wish all my guns were that way, and that's why I was disappointed when the Albacore sunk.

JP already said that the bird shot was loose rather than epoxied in, but since I already took a photo showing that I don't want to waste it. This is the Denton, but the Albacore is the same. He also mentioned the the cover plate is recessed on the Albacore and not on the Denton. I think that's a nice little touch since I worried that line might catch on the cover plate some time. Anyway, you can see the difference in my photos.

Now that I've put that divinacel foam in the muzzle compartment of the Albacore, I'm going back to the harbor and see what difference it makes. Removing the bird shot already let it float, but I'm hoping the foam in that muzzle compartment will let it float with the muzzle a little more nose up., and maybe let me add a line loop and loading tab. If after using it I'd like the muzzle to be a bit lighter, I might try spraying some construction foam to fill up that muzzle compartment. I doubt that I dive deep enough to crush it.

If I could get my hands on one of the carbon fiber cover plates, I'm sure that would help. My stainless plate weighs 25 grams.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby Bill McIntyre » November 2nd, 2016, 11:53 am

I made another trip to the harbor, and that foam appears to have been enough. I taped on a piece of heavy wire like the line loop that JP is going to send me (hint) and a Wong style loading tab, and the gun floated about as high and at about the same angle as my Denton. I guess I can install that stuff if I want to.

I realize that you may have heard about all you want to hear about my personal struggle, but if any prospective buyers out there are concerned about floating their Albacore 130s, I wanted to let them know that its possible.

In another couple of days I think my knee may be well enough to let me actually go in the water with the gun instead of just throwing it off the dock by itself. I'll let you know if it can hit any fish.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby castronova » November 2nd, 2016, 3:31 pm

PM me your address Bill. Glad that worked now let's see how it shoots.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby Bill McIntyre » November 2nd, 2016, 3:47 pm

Yeah, let's see. I've declared my knee ready and plan to get out Friday.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby castronova » January 18th, 2017, 6:49 am

Here you go. Majd tested the Albacore 130. 140cm band stretch, 3 x 14.6mm bands, 7.7 pounds (Majd could be slightly different but thats the base gun with bands). Tested through 6 inches of high density foam at 8 meters or 26 feet 3 inches. Have fun with it.

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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby Schwaman » January 18th, 2017, 7:38 am

yeah, no, this is making spearfishing unfair as he said.
I'll stick to my 4m range ;-)

very impressive! Any one selling a used one?
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby castronova » January 18th, 2017, 7:53 am

I don't think it will be easy to find them on the used market for quite some time. Not a large number of units out there yet. Maybe a few dozen.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby Straz » January 18th, 2017, 8:33 am

Thanks for posting that vid JP. I highly recommend the Abellan line guns. I have the denton 110 (120 cm bandstretch) and albacore 130 (140 cm bandstretch).
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby Bill McIntyre » January 18th, 2017, 8:34 am

I got mine too late in the season to really try it out, but if I suck I guess I won't be able to blame it on the gun. I just wish he hadn't modified the handle before the test though. It would are nice to show how it worked right out of the box, and then later show how any modifications improved it. I did order a couple of those articulated wishbones and have put one on my Denton 110. Now I guess I'll put one on my Albacore 130.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby Bill McIntyre » January 18th, 2017, 9:08 am

Notice that Majd said that he customized the handle for "perfect alignment and fit." Its too bad he doesn't post on this forum, but in other places he has gone to great lengths about the importance of handle alignment so that your forearm is perfectly in line with the recoil force. All this stuff about rear handled guns is new to me and I'd probably be better off not even knowing what I'm missing, but there photo below shows me holding the handle of my Denton naturally, without forcing anything. Notice that my arm is not lined up right behind the gun. If something looks funny, its because I've removed the mechanism. According to Majd, this causes what he calls "left shift. Since not all of the recoil is directly into my hand, the butt moves left causing the muzzle to move right, which pushes the rear of the shaft right causing the shot to be off to the left of the aim point. So he uses putty to change the shape of the handle and improve the alignment, but there is another solution. Rotate the handle a little clockwise (for a right hand grip) or counterclockwise (for a left hand grip)" so that the recoil is straight down your arm.

I'd have probably been better off not even knowing about this, but now that I know it, I can't un know it, so I removed the mechanism to see if I could rotate the handle. The second photo shows two nubs on top of the handle that stick up into holes in the stainless steel. Those keep the handle from rotating, and I wouldn't dare grind them off. Majd has also mentioned that future Abellan guns will be coming with the handles rotated, so I asked Harry if I could buy a couple of new handles. He replied that they would probably be available in about a month, so I ordered a couple.

Hopefully they will arrive in time to keep me from having any excuse for missing a white sea bass. The rest of you who have been shooting fish all along without worrying about handle rotation can ignore everything I've said.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby Bill McIntyre » January 18th, 2017, 9:35 am

Does anyone know where I could get that Devotosub 170cm x 8.5mm shaft or something like it in the US? My gun came with a nice Hunt threaded shaft with rest tab and I'll use that with a slip tip, but I'd like to have a similar flopper shaft for yellowtail. I found them on the Devotosub web site, but I guess shipping from Italy would be expensive.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby castronova » January 18th, 2017, 10:04 am

Bill, I don't know about the Devotosub but I have asked GR (Red Tide Spearfishing) to bring me some flopper shafts for my Costa Rica trip next month when he comes to my tournament. I am getting 170cm x 8mm double flopper for giant pargo. He carries some euro notch shafts but only up to 8mm. They probably aren't as perfectly stream lined as some of those European shafts, larger shark fins, etc. but I think they will be fine.

The standard Abellan handle is probably the best stock handle made on a speargun right now. There are others that have a similar shape but are way too small or not raised as high. I think he could just put a standard handle from one of his other Abellans and test again (unless he has modified them all). You have to remember though, I'm guessing he is pushing that gun as far as the bands go. If you use less aggressive cut bands you will be ok with the standard handle and still have 24+ feet of tuna penetration available and good accuracy. I cut mine shorter than what it came with on the second go around and shot tuna without an issue. I then took those bands which were only 14mm, 3 months old with 2 of them being nicked pretty badly, and shot through the 25' roofing foam target with a slip-tip and slide ring while laying sideways at 90*.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby Bill McIntyre » January 18th, 2017, 11:17 am

I just checked with Harry and he said he had some Hunt flopper shafts on order. I like the Hunt threaded shaft that came with the gun, so I think I'll wait for one of the Hunts.
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Re: Abellan gun evolution

Postby castronova » January 18th, 2017, 11:33 am

I just got 2 hunt 8mm shafts for my Denton 120, they are one of the nicest shafts I think I've ever seen. Dean/Mori quality with a fully recessed flopper. You'll really like them.
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