Who invented floatlines? The air filled tubeing with Braided

From stories about vintage gear to stories of days gone by, this is where we all came from.

Who invented floatlines? The air filled tubeing with Braided

Postby dustyyoungblood » December 3rd, 2014, 4:45 pm

Being I make and hand tie floatlines often, Young guys always ask if we invented them!!!!! Which is not true.
But who did?
Once I was told that Jay Riffe invented the use of floatline. Is that accurate? Can't be, not old enough.
A Norcal guy is rumored to have invented them also, but again..... to young.

So who gets credit? It was a good idea.
User avatar
dustyyoungblood
Sturgill spearfishing
 
Posts: 964
Joined: July 2013
Location: Ladera Ranch, CA.

Re: Who invented floatlines? The air filled tubeing with Bra

Postby phil herranen » December 3rd, 2014, 7:13 pm

if i had to make a guess i would say pots or prodonovich , no way it was riffe
User avatar
phil herranen
Herranen Spearguns
 
Posts: 835
Joined: July 2013
Location: santa cruz

Re: Who invented floatlines? The air filled tubeing with Bra

Postby phil herranen » December 5th, 2014, 8:43 am

Who is the NorCal guy claiming it?
User avatar
phil herranen
Herranen Spearguns
 
Posts: 835
Joined: July 2013
Location: santa cruz

Re: Who invented floatlines? The air filled tubeing with Bra

Postby Rob102 » December 5th, 2014, 7:05 pm

I'm fairly certain it wasn't a nor cal thing. I used rope and even retractable clotheslines for years before I learned about float lines.
User avatar
Rob102
spearo
 
Posts: 224
Joined: August 2013
Location: Caspar, Ca

Re: Who invented floatlines? The air filled tubeing with Bra

Postby AJP » December 5th, 2014, 7:13 pm

Wasn't it Alexander Francis Floatline?
Aaron P.
User avatar
AJP
prick
 
Posts: 728
Joined: May 2014
Location: Noleta, CA

Re: Who invented floatlines? The air filled tubeing with Bra

Postby Westbury » December 5th, 2014, 9:29 pm

It was Al Gore.
He also invented the internet.
User avatar
Westbury
kook
 
Posts: 661
Joined: July 2013

Re: Who invented floatlines? The air filled tubeing with Bra

Postby Namor » December 7th, 2014, 3:16 am

I put the question to dive pioneer and historian Sam Miller and got the following reply. If the oral history project ever comes off, Sam would be on the short list for interviews; his knowledge is encyclopedic.

Jeremy
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
re: your question- Float lines- perhaps I can add a small amount of history.



I would suspect the development and use of a float line was like Topsey of in the book Uncle Tom's Cabin "I jes grew da way!" And I recall the use of a float line in California diving slowly evolving.



In 1960 I spent a good part of the summer diving with the Club Hombre Ranas (Frogmen's Club) of Veracruz Mexico. The club a small collection of spear guns which were highly treasured so they shared their usage, each member had his own homemade spear shaft with a long line attached terminating in a small rubber ball. I guess this could be considered a float & line



I recall seeing pictures of "float lines" being used by the Europeans and especially the Italians possibly in the 1960s maybe later. They used a large ball, perhaps a soccer ball encased in a net web which was towed by the diver terminated at the gun.



There was a very old short B &W movie of the Italian diver Quedeo Catalini who speared with two Cressi spring powered guns. With a gun in each hand and a line trailing behind he would dive on a fish, shoot it and allowing the fish to fight on the line while he shot the second fish and returned to the surface with both guns in hand -it is assumed the guns even though an Italian product were valuable assets and were protected from loss. So also a possibility of the early use of a float line.



I recall sending you my article the "Man with the golden gun" which was published in Discover Diving in 1994 about Joe Lamonica (JBL) and his gold plated presentation spear gun. My opening paragraph was about my mythical diver Quedeo Matsamoto- that was the origin of Quedeo. Joe is another member of the tribe that is missed, hard working, honest his word was his bond, sad that all these qualities did not transfer with the sale.



My children had a Hippity Hop toy - a big ball with a handle which children held on and bounced around the room. On several Mexico trips, possibly in the early 1970s I used this as a trail line float. After a trip or two It was given up as a lost cause.



In 1969 I was voted "Outstanding Underwater Instructor of the year,"
concurrently Jim Baldwin was voted the "Helms underwater athlete of 1969." We were both Neptunes and La Co UW instructors so we had occasional contact. I recall him chatting about a new technique of trailing a rather large poly pro line behind rather than using the standard of California diving the line pack.

This may well have been the beginning of the trial line in California diving.



However, I suspect the origins of the float and line can never be traced to infinity and have been lost with the passage of time.



I will take some time a review the books devoted to spearfishing in my library and keep you informed



Take care and stay in touch



SAM
User avatar
Namor
kook
 
Posts: 585
Joined: July 2013
Location: Goleta

Re: Who invented floatlines? The air filled tubeing with Bra

Postby Oscar » December 7th, 2014, 7:14 am

Namor wrote:I put the question to dive pioneer and historian Sam Miller and got the following reply. If the oral history project ever comes off, Sam would be on the short list for interviews; his knowledge is encyclopedic.

Jeremy
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
re: your question- Float lines- perhaps I can add a small amount of history.



I would suspect the development and use of a float line was like Topsey of in the book Uncle Tom's Cabin "I jes grew da way!" And I recall the use of a float line in California diving slowly evolving.



In 1960 I spent a good part of the summer diving with the Club Hombre Ranas (Frogmen's Club) of Veracruz Mexico. The club a small collection of spear guns which were highly treasured so they shared their usage, each member had his own homemade spear shaft with a long line attached terminating in a small rubber ball. I guess this could be considered a float & line

However, I suspect the origins of the float and line can never be traced to infinity and have been lost with the passage of time.



I will take some time a review the books devoted to spearfishing in my library and keep you informed



Take care and stay in touch



SAM


I don't think a line and some type of float - like I used in the 50's and 60's (attached photo) is what the original question was making reference to - but yes I used yellow Ski Ropes (nylon) because they did float and I had to do something after shooting big fish after losing a few expensive ($20-25.00) Arbaletes. I think the OP was asking about a hollow tube with a line coiled inside and I suspect it came out of California. Maybe Don Paul knows?
Attachments
User avatar
Oscar
spearo
 
Posts: 382
Joined: August 2013
Location: Flower Mound, Texas

Re: Who invented floatlines? The air filled tubeing with Bra

Postby dustyyoungblood » December 7th, 2014, 8:18 pm

A Rope or tubing trail line is not much of an innovation, and like Sam notes can be traced back to several possible origins including Europe.

But some wise man or woman must have seen it valuable enough to use a hollow air filled tube with a stronger inner core material to make one up.

Wild guess is Mori probably knows the history, and I bet it was either in SoCal or San Diego.
User avatar
dustyyoungblood
Sturgill spearfishing
 
Posts: 964
Joined: July 2013
Location: Ladera Ranch, CA.

Re: Who invented floatlines? The air filled tubeing with Bra

Postby Namor » December 8th, 2014, 7:43 am

Although as Oscar (BTW that is a crazy huge grouper you have in your pic; Im surprised your balls could fit in that banana hammock your sporting for the photo) pointed out its not exactly the question (float line vrs trail line) asked, Sam Miller was kind enough to do a little more research and send me his findings.

Jeremy

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeremy,

It is an over cast lazy day in Pismodise, just the type of day that lends it self to use my inquisitive mind for research.



I pulled all my Spear Fishing books, from the shelf, which number well over 75 books from the US, Australia, Germany and France. I began with Gilpatric in 1937 and worked forward to present day.



I laboriously reviewed the books for descriptions, drawings or photographs of a trail line. I must confess that I only selected the books for further review or reading when a picture or verbiage on trail lines jumped off the page to me



The references I discovered were as follows;



"Underwater sport" by Vanderkogel - 1955 - of a drawing on page 71 in of a diver with a gas gun shooting line attached to an inner tube

float at the surface ( did I share with you my article "The magnificent gas Gun?" from my dedicated column "The way it was" February 1993 Discover Diving? About my adventures while a USAF officer in the Korean War and a my homemade Barada gas gun)



"Handbook for skin divers"-George Bronson-Howard -1956 &1958- page 29 line drawing of a free diver with gun in hand trailing a float via a 30 foot nylon line, also page 31 line drawing with the caption " one man fires the spear with the line to the boat"



"Underwater hunting: It's techniques and adventures" - Bill Barada - 1969- page155- Don Scott describes the use of a surface float attached to his shooting line while spear fishing in Cabo.

(Bill published about ten books on diving and was the founder of the Neptunes. This is one of his best books and on his favorite subject Spear fishing--Google Bill's name)



"The spear fisherman's hand book"

David Way ( English book ) -1981 -page 116 of a diver with a rubber powered gun with a trail line to the surface





Big Jim Spearfishing seminar -1982- pages E-4,4 &6, drawing of trail line, how to construct and how to use a trail line.



Spearfishing for Skin and SCUBA divers-Steve M Barsky -1997- Page 43 describes towing a torpedo float (Burnside buoy) attached to the gun



I would assume that this would be adequate documentation of the origin of the float line--But there are those modern late model tube sucking bubble blowers who will refute the documentation with I think, I suppose, I heard, I believe...

Big Jim Spearfishing seminar -1982- pages E-4,4 &6, drawing of trail line, how to construct and how to use a trail line.



Spearfishing for Skin and SCUBA divers-Steve M Barsky -1997- Page 43 describes towing a torpedo float (Burnside buoy) attached to the gun



I would assume that this would be adequate documentation of the origin of the float line--But there are those modern late model tube sucking bubble blowers who will refute the documentation with I think, I suppose, I heard, I believe...

Jeremy,

It is an over cast lazy day in Pismodise, just the type of day that lends it self to use my inquisitive mind for research.



I pulled all my Spear Fishing books, from the shelf, which number well over 75 books from the US, Australia, Germany and France. I began with Gilpatric in 1937 and worked forward to present day.



I laboriously reviewed the books for descriptions, drawings or photographs of a trail line. I must confess that I only selected the books for further review or reading when a picture or verbiage on trail lines jumped off the page to me



The references I discovered were as follows;



"Underwater sport" by Vanderkogel - 1955 - of a drawing on page 71 in of a diver with a gas gun shooting line attached to an inner tube

float at the surface ( did I share with you my article "The magnificent gas Gun?" from my dedicated column "The way it was" February 1993 Discover Diving? About my adventures while a USAF officer in the Korean War and a my homemade Barada gas gun)



"Handbook for skin divers"-George Bronson-Howard -1956 &1958- page 29 line drawing of a free diver with gun in hand trailing a float via a 30 foot nylon line, also page 31 line drawing with the caption " one man fires the spear with the line to the boat"



"Underwater hunting: It's techniques and adventures" - Bill Barada - 1969- page155- Don Scott describes the use of a surface float attached to his shooting line while spear fishing in Cabo.

(Bill published about ten books on diving and was the founder of the Neptunes. This is one of his best books and on his favorite subject Spear fishing--Google Bill's name)



"The spear fisherman's hand book"

David Way ( English book ) -1981 -page 116 of a diver with a rubber powered gun with a trail line to the surface
User avatar
Namor
kook
 
Posts: 585
Joined: July 2013
Location: Goleta

Re: Who invented floatlines? The air filled tubeing with Bra

Postby Bill McIntyre » December 8th, 2014, 9:20 am

Sam has a lot of books, but I don't think he understands the question.

As Oscar said,

A Rope or tubing trail line is not much of an innovation, and like Sam notes can be traced back to several possible origins including Europe.

But some wise man or woman must have seen it valuable enough to use a hollow air filled tube with a stronger inner core material to make one up.
email me at wsbhtr@cox.net
User avatar
Bill McIntyre
billie mac
 
Posts: 3589
Joined: July 2013
Location: San Clemente, CA

Re: Who invented floatlines? The air filled tubeing with Bra

Postby dustyyoungblood » December 8th, 2014, 10:14 am

Sam is a wealth of historic knowledge, and I get emails from him once every few months when he discovers some Charlie Sturgill references (much appreciated always Sam) but it drives me freaking nuts when people cannot bring themselves to answer a simple question with "I do not know". Why is that so hard? Doctors do that also, they always have to make a diagnosis immediately instead of "I do not know". Nothing wrong with not knowing and being honest about it.
User avatar
dustyyoungblood
Sturgill spearfishing
 
Posts: 964
Joined: July 2013
Location: Ladera Ranch, CA.

Re: Who invented floatlines? The air filled tubeing with Bra

Postby Bill McIntyre » December 8th, 2014, 10:24 am

dustyyoungblood wrote:Sam is a wealth of historic knowledge, and I get emails from him once every few months when he discovers some Charlie Sturgill references (much appreciated always Sam) but it drives me freaking nuts when people cannot bring themselves to answer a simple question with "I do not know". Why is that so hard? Doctors do that also, they always have to make a diagnosis immediately instead of "I do not know". Nothing wrong with not knowing and being honest about it.


Well, Sam was a chiropractor, so maybe that's close enough.
email me at wsbhtr@cox.net
User avatar
Bill McIntyre
billie mac
 
Posts: 3589
Joined: July 2013
Location: San Clemente, CA

Re: Who invented floatlines? The air filled tubeing with Bra

Postby Donzi Paul » June 20th, 2015, 1:31 pm

Terry Maas had the first one (plugged vinyl with blue tuna cordage) along with Lifeguard float I ever saw in 1981, I copyed it and built 6 for a comp diver and myself and still have one as a display piece. I'm not sure if Terry was the first or his mates Jim Mabry and Terry Lentz. I'll ask him the next time I see him.

Cheers,Don
Long Beach Neptune 1983 ...still
User avatar
Donzi Paul
sea slayer
 
Posts: 1229
Joined: July 2013
Location: Ca


Return to Freediving History

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users