Handle mod

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Handle mod

Postby Styspearo » October 26th, 2019, 12:03 pm

It took me some time to assemble all the materials and study how to do it, as I never did anything like that before, but finally I finished my handle mod "à la Majd".

Started by dremeling a bit

Dremeled too the side of trigger, because I did not like the feel on my finger (my hand gets rotated automatically).

Then molded the Milliput epoxy putty.


I used the speargun with the raw epoxy putty and got quite satisfied. Recoil was coming right into my palm, it's a different feeling, and more confortable.

It came the day to do the CF skinning, all the materials ready: epoxy resin and hardener, 6K CF sleeve, peel ply, perforated film and breather cloth.

Even with a CF sleeve, it was a bit more fussy work than I expected... The CF ends were fraying apart easily and they never set down glued at base and top of handle.
Finally I managed to wrap all the required layers and, when I vacuumed, everything looked to be well set. But I can't wonder how to do this job without vacuum, as I saw in other tutorial videos...

After curing and unwrapping, the handle was looking good, and felt good too in my hand.

Just had to sand some areas where the epoxy overflowed a bit and was not absorbed by the breather cloth.
Then applied the final coat over the non-grip areas, and after curing, taped the borders to the gripping area.


Finally, applied the epoxy to grip areas and spreaded over a carbide sand #220. I chose a somewhat fine grit, by testing first the feeling in my hand with different sandpapers. This #220 looked a good compromise, not being too "gritty" but still making for a good grip (tested under water, or wet).

The result looks good. At least for a first timer :D

Last edited by Styspearo on October 27th, 2019, 5:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Styspearo » October 26th, 2019, 12:06 pm

Well... if someone can help me, I cannot see the pics. Used pastepic.xyz but it looks is not working...
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Bill McIntyre » October 26th, 2019, 4:12 pm

I can't see them either. I don't know any of that high tech stuff, but I just click on Upload Attachment at the bottom of the post, navigate to my photo and Choose file, and click add file.

I'm hoping to avoid doing all the work you did by buying the new modified handles for my Abellans from Harry K, but it seems they keep getting delayed.
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Styspearo » October 27th, 2019, 5:14 am

Bill McIntyre wrote:I can't see them either. I don't know any of that high tech stuff, but I just click on Upload Attachment at the bottom of the post, navigate to my photo and Choose file, and click add file.


Thank you Bill. Edited now. It's more straightforward than uploading to a pic holder.

I'm hoping to avoid doing all the work you did by buying the new modified handles for my Abellans from Harry K, but it seems they keep getting delayed.

They are probably too busy spearfishing...or having a good time :text-givemebeer:
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Donzi Paul » October 27th, 2019, 7:28 am

Very nice work mate. :obscene-drinkingcheers:

Cheers. Don
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Bill McIntyre » October 27th, 2019, 9:47 am

That sounds like so much work and I’d probably screw something up. I think I’ll wait and hope Harry finally delivers.

I tried 15 mm bands on my Denton 120 and I did notice a lot more side kick into my thumb so I went back to 14.5 mm.
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Styspearo » October 27th, 2019, 10:02 am

Yes, with the normal Abellan handle, although it is quite high placed and hand fitting, it does not allow for recoil to go right into hand palm. You will be amazed at how recoil becomes so much manageable with a modified handle. I still have just 2X14.5mm bands in my 115 but I feel I could load much more.
Not doing that, because this speargun length would become overpowered, but I plan to build a longer one and I know the issue of recoil is solved now.

BTW, where have you got the 14.5mm and 15mm bands (small ID) ? It's being hard to find other than standard 14mm or 16mm (small ID).
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Behslayer » October 27th, 2019, 10:25 am

If you have an AR-15 Handle Frame on your Gun, these LockDown Contour Grips are sweeeet.

http://www.ulusub.com/gun-building-part ... dle-frames
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Bill McIntyre » October 27th, 2019, 10:50 am

Styspearo wrote:BTW, where have you got the 14.5mm and 15mm bands (small ID) ? It's being hard to find other than standard 14mm or 16mm (small ID).


I got it locally at Spear America, but their web site doesn't show it now.

https://www.spearamerica.com/collection ... ulk-rubber
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Bill McIntyre » October 27th, 2019, 10:53 am

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Re: Handle mod

Postby Bill McIntyre » October 27th, 2019, 10:57 am

Come to think of it, Benthic is where I got the 15mm.

https://benthicoceansports.com/products ... grayrubber
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Styspearo » October 27th, 2019, 11:02 am

Thanks. I saw this aft the 15mm at Benthic. Shall contact the others too.
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Styspearo » October 27th, 2019, 11:09 am

Behslayer wrote:If you have an AR-15 Handle Frame on your Gun, these LockDown Contour Grips are sweeeet.


They look nice :eusa-clap: But not fitting to the kind of guns I have around.

But anyway, the mod experience taught me that nothing can replace a custom fit. Every hand is different, and I suppose the gripping way is personal too. A custom made handle means that you are very close to have a perfect symbiosis between your body and your gun. Especially when we know how recoil and fitting may affect the shooting quality.
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Bill McIntyre » October 27th, 2019, 11:35 am

Behslayer wrote:If you have an AR-15 Handle Frame on your Gun, these LockDown Contour Grips are sweeeet.

http://www.ulusub.com/gun-building-part ... dle-frames


Jon, this brings up a problem and question. For years with mid handled guns I carried them on their backs with the handles back near my thigh, and then rotated them forward and upright to take a shot. But with the molded right-hand handles on my Abellan guns and with the molded right hand handle on my Ulusub 155RH, I find that to be awkward. My hand doesn't smoothly roll around it and it seems like I'm fumbling to get my hand in position on it after I get it in front of me. So last week I put that standard ambidextrous handle on it and it felt much more comfortable getting the handle from behind me into position in front of me. Unfortunately I didn't get to take a shot so I can't say if accuracy was affected.

So my question is- and this is for other guys with Abellans or your molded handles too- do you customarily carry the gun out in front of you with your hand already gripping the handle? Should I try to do that rather than trying to roll it forward?
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Styspearo » October 27th, 2019, 12:47 pm

I usually carry the gun either pointing back and holding the handle as if I'm going to shoot, or pointing forward and holding at mid-barrel.
In either case I don't see an issue on placing the hand properly when preparing to shoot.

Another issue I could not yet solve, is to get the breakaway steel clip (connecting shooting line and floating line/bungee) out of the way...
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Bill McIntyre » October 27th, 2019, 1:01 pm

Styspearo wrote:I usually carry the gun either pointing back and holding the handle as if I'm going to shoot, or pointing forward and holding at mid-barrel.
In either case I don't see an issue on placing the hand properly when preparing to shoot.


I've been carrying it at mid barrel, but for some reason I still have trouble moving to a proper grip on the handle. I guess I need practice.

Another issue I could not yet solve, is to get the breakaway steel clip (connecting shooting line and floating line/bungee) out of the way...


That's another issue for me and its part of the reason I have trouble gripping the handle. With mid handled guns the float line attaches to the shooting line behind the handle, and I'm having a hard time getting used to it being in front of the handle.
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Behslayer » October 27th, 2019, 10:18 pm

Hi Bill,

A contour Handle definitely requires a little more adjustment to get into place. I've had the same feeling many times. But, once you are Locked Down into a well fitting Contour Grip, there are some upsides. I remember one day two Navy Seals came and visited me in my Workshop back in Rhode Island and I showed them that contour grip you have on your gun and he held it out and said wow this feels great, but what if you get injured on your right side?..

One thing I don't like are Contour Grips, or really any grips which are Tooo big, too volumous and really are made specifically for one hand. Those take an even longer time to find your sweetspot. For me the happy medium is to make a grip which has the right shapes and contour but is loose enough fitting that it can be used by different hands. I agonized over the details of these new Lockdown Grips when I was designing them so that they would ride that line which allowed the Function, but also was easy to find the sweetspot for many different hands.
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Bill McIntyre » October 28th, 2019, 10:38 am

Jon,

How does that lockdown handle compare to my contour handle in terms of size and shape?
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Behslayer » October 28th, 2019, 11:00 am

Hi Bill,

I used to make the Handles by shaping down a Royal Arms Grip. But there was always a few things which I couldn't change. Direction it pointed. Things about the Thumbrest. Volumes. This grip is smaller. When I made this Grip I made what I really wanted. One difference between this grip and any other AR-15 Grip I've seen is where it points. Another difference is that I extended a 1/4" Screw almost 2" into the palm of the grip so it is extremely strong. Also, it's made from Dupont Zytel Polymer the entire grip. Not from Glass filled Nylon over a Zytel core.
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Styspearo » October 29th, 2019, 4:34 am

Behslayer wrote:One thing I don't like are Contour Grips, or really any grips which are Tooo big, too volumous and really are made specifically for one hand. Those take an even longer time to find your sweetspot. For me the happy medium is to make a grip which has the right shapes and contour but is loose enough fitting that it can be used by different hands.


Hi Jon,

But if you knew that Contour Grip in question was going to be used only by you, and never sold or exchanged, what would you pick ? One specifically made for your hand, or one that can be used by different hands ?
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Behslayer » October 29th, 2019, 10:02 am

Interesting Question.

I have a favorite pair of boots. I don't lace them super tight, leave them a bit loose. I just pull them on and I'm in the right spot. But they are super comfortable and never give me blisters.

Thinking more about Blisters.. I remember back in my youth. I was a Gymnast. Horizontal High Bar was my specialty. I could do Giant Swings.. which is when you go around the bar in a hand stand. I used to get some serious blisters and callouses on my hands. As you can imagine, swinging around a bar by your hands can cause some stress on them. But my whole hands were not all ripped up.. Only in certain spots. Points of contact. Sure, my Palms, middle of my hand, were in some contact, but it was only the areas under the knuckles of my palm and some parts of my fingers which really felt force which would bleed.

Gun Recoil is the same. It's not going to go into every part of the grip just because your hand is there.. What you've created there is a fit of your whole hand which means you will fill the points of recoil, but at the same time you have a lot of extra parts which are filled which only allow the grip to fit you and also make it a little more tough to get into position. If that grip were a boot.. It would give you blisters. It's like a Boot which is sized perfect and laced tight. Whereas my boots are a 1/2 size too big and laced a little loose. Atleast that's how I look at it.

The idea is to use the positive effects of a contour grip but get away from the negative effects of one which is too specific.

To answer your question. In my opinion/experience. A Good grip will fit different hands. But that's me. Some people may want to tape themselves onto a Pistol or Climb into a Rifle. Especially for Spearfishing, I like something which I can Drop my hand into place relatively easily.
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Bill McIntyre » October 29th, 2019, 10:47 am

Damn, this is a good winter discussion. I wanted to get out again this week but it looks like the strong Santa Ana winds are resuming tomorrow so I might as well beat handles to death. :)

I think I tend to agree with Jorge, or at least I'm coming from the same place. If I just reach out and grab the Abbelan handle, it feels fine in my hand. But unless I make a conscious effort to adjust, my forearm is not lined up straight behind the gun. See the photo below. So instead of the recoil being straight into my palm, its directed into my thumb. When I tried 15 mm bands I could really feel it, and could see the side shift. So its not that the handle doesn't fit my hand, its that its not pointed in the right direction. And its that way a bit with my Ulusub molded handle.

Edit- I added a photo holding the Ulusub handle. Its not on a gun but I think it still shows the alignment.

So when magdq8 did that handle mod that I believe was the inspiration for what Jorge did, it effectively rotated the handle so that the recoil is directed into the palm. (Jorge, correct me if I have it wrong).

I'm too lazy and/or inept to get all the materials together and try that mod myself, but Harry K. said he was modifying the Abellan handles so that they were rotated about 10 degrees clockwise to accomplish the same thing. Of course that was over a year ago and I'm still waiting, but hope springs eternal.

Meanwhile Jon, I ordered one of your new handles for my Ulusub day before yesterday. I'm hoping it will direct the recoil into my palm. At $34 its less than I spent on a small bag of groceries at Trader Joes so its not the most expensive experiment I've ever undertaken. Now I hope it gets here before the season is over. :)
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Styspearo » October 29th, 2019, 2:05 pm

Behslayer wrote:Gun Recoil is the same. It's not going to go into every part of the grip just because your hand is there.. What you've created there is a fit of your whole hand which means you will fill the points of recoil, but at the same time you have a lot of extra parts which are filled which only allow the grip to fit you and also make it a little more tough to get into position. If that grip were a boot.. It would give you blisters. It's like a Boot which is sized perfect and laced tight. Whereas my boots are a 1/2 size too big and laced a little loose. Atleast that's how I look at it.


Absolutely agree with your choice of the right boots.
In a former life, besides of a spearo I was also a hunter (on land). I remember going with my uncle and some other family and friends of him, and we all walked (fast) all day, from sunrise to sunset. I never measured distances but we surely made at least 30-35 km, over all kinds of terrain. The choice of right boots was absolutely critical, and even so I ended with feet quite sored for a few days after.

But I don't know if the comparison can be made with handles. First of all, because holding "full-body" the handle is done just for a few seconds at each time, the time it takes to aim and shoot. All the remainder time, I just hold very lightly, or grabbing the speargun by other parts (my buddies even grab theirs by the muzzle, but I find that quite unsafe).

Now, I concede that a full customized grip is a bit more awkward to quickly grab and place hand correctly, but it's something we get used to do, and quickly, if we think consciously when doing it. For me, it takes much more time to get all the breakaway rigging in proper position than it takes to grab the handle.

Bill McIntyre wrote:So when magdq8 did that handle mod that I believe was the inspiration for what Jorge did, it effectively rotated the handle so that the recoil is directed into the palm. (Jorge, correct me if I have it wrong).


Yes, Bill, that is also another big advantage. With a full aligned handle, aiming is much more natural and quickly done.

Fortunately I have also a non-modded handle (waiting for a new build, a larger copy of my present gun) so I can compare directly.
Look at pics below.

This is modded handle, notice how the pins align with my arm.

Now, this is non-modded handle (same brand and model)

The pins (which show the barrel alignment) are deviated to right. Of course I can turn the hand to aim right in direction, but doing so the alignment of gun, and recoil forces, will be into my thumb.

Putting side by side, the modded handle is much more large (and a bit heavier) than the non-modded one. But in water, things are still pretty balanced.

But it's a pleasure to close the eyes, aim, and then open again to see it's quite perfectly aligned. (This was part of check test Majd proposed to fine tune the handle build).
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Behslayer » October 30th, 2019, 9:42 am

Almost all Pistol Grips are designed to be used with two hands. The Aiming point is centered when the grip is centered between two hands. If you are shooting one handed with a standard grip, your point of aim will be to the right of center if you are using your right hand or to the left of center if you are using your left hand. The same goes for a grip which is designed for one handed shooting as above. If you are using with two hands your point of aim will be to the left of center if you are right handed etc. Pistol grips designed for one handed shooting are angled differently.
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Styspearo » October 30th, 2019, 10:26 am

I see, thanks for the explanation.
So, that means the standard grip I have here was designed for (or copied from a design intended for) shooting with two hands.
Because if I hold it with both hands, and aim, effectively the barrel line of sight (the 2 pins) is centered. While if I do that with the modded grip, it will be deviated to left.
So the grip mod changed the function, from shooting both hands to one hand only (the right one).

I find a bit odd why a back handle speargun would be designed to be shoot with two hands. At least to my style of shooting. Maybe in low visibility, or when fish are moving around fast, there could be a place to use both hands.

Also, a spearfisher usually adopts a shooting stance that is quite different from a pistol shooter stance. Similar yes, to a lying down shooter, as opposed to a standing up shooter, but even so I think the spearfisher usual overextending arm, the lack of gravity effect, all this make for a different approach.

And the need for recoil control is here also more imperative, as I suppose recoil does not affect rifle or pistol gun shooting, while it is known it may deviate a spear shaft.
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Behslayer » October 30th, 2019, 7:44 pm

Yes.. that is exactly it. But a lot of people do use two hands when shooting Rear Handles Bluewater, even if the diver has their shoulders squared off with that second hand just barely touching, they are effectively bringing the gun into their center. Points straight, but still without the second hand bracing, recoil is over the thumb. But if you watch a bunch of videos of Bluewater Rear Handle shooting, (Have a look at some of the videos from Hawaii Bluewater) You'll see a lot of guys holding the gun with two hands swimming at the fish making a nice A. Their gun is centered, shot direction is true.
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Styspearo » October 31st, 2019, 8:21 am

Yes, I saw those videos. Shooting with two hands might effectively brace against recoil, and do a better energy transfer from bands/barrel to spearshaft.
But this can be done also by the grip mod where recoil goes directly into palm and one arm. Never tried to use both arms when shooting, but somehow I feel that using just one arm allows for more flexibility and ease in water.
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Behslayer » October 31st, 2019, 10:11 am

With a 2 band gun, no worries. I always use one hand. 2 band guns are usually less than 130cm. Most of the time I shoot a smaller gun like that I'm holding onto the reef with one hand. Bluewater/Mid Water with 3 band Rear Handles is different. The guns are longer, the 3 bands require more effort to track, the shots are longer and the targets are moving (in real life) and there's no references of reef for distance or ground to steady your body. Most people who shoot Bluewater/midwater with a Rear handle with 3 bands are going to use a second hand for bracing or guidance. Even with Contour Grip which channels more recoil, guys will use a second hand. I have a friend who uses the customized Royal Arms Grip on one the 2 original prototypes for our 155RH 3 Band gun. He has literally shot over 10,000lbs of Wahoo and 10,000lbs of Tuna with that gun. (I'm not kidding) He shot a 50# Wahoo with it yesterday. Probably shoot another one today. I don't think he's ever taken a one handed shot.

I'm not saying all this to take away from your Grip Mod. I think it's awesome that you took some time and customized your equipment and worked with composites, etc. That's how Spearfishing used to be. We all made our gear. We spent time in Metalshops, wood shops, fiberglassing, Fiberglassing, etc. Fabricating ideas. Trying them out. There was no internet. Only Terry's Bible to help us with ideas. So we all made things. Tried things. Shared things.

I'm sharing some of what I've learned about grips. One essential is where they aim, and when they aim there. Another essential is size. Most specifically not being too full at the trigger pull distance.
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Styspearo » November 1st, 2019, 4:41 am

Thanks for sharing your experience and other's.
I come from a time where there were no information, no books (at least available locally) and we just sticked to the material we had and adapted to it. Then had a gap of 29 years away from spearfishing... Now back and there is plenty of informations. But even so there are not many people that tested methodically all the new information and technology. As Majd for example.
But I am not detracting from the real experience, in the field, from so many spearos. And you probably agree with me that that experience and knowledge is difficult to share and transmit to others.

Maybe it is now time to add another testing variable, besides accuracy and penetration power, the manoeuvering and ease of aiming to a moving target.
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Trace » November 8th, 2019, 10:55 am

I just received one of Jon’s new Contour Grips in the mail yesterday Very Nice. Much better feel then the Royal Arms grip. Thanks for always improving equipment we use Jon!
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Re: Handle mod

Postby popgun pete » November 8th, 2019, 1:11 pm

Shoot my guns with either hand, so need a universal grip, although I usually use my right unless I am hanging onto something while taking the shot, like the lip of a rocky trench, and of course which side of it I am on.
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Bill McIntyre » November 9th, 2019, 11:18 am

Trace wrote:I just received one of Jon’s new Contour Grips in the mail yesterday Very Nice. Much better feel then the Royal Arms grip. Thanks for always improving equipment we use Jon!


I got one a couple of days ago and I like it better too, but I just can't attach it. Maybe you can give me some suggestions.

The lock washer that came with it seemed to be too big for the hole in the bottom of the handle so I drove it in with a screwdriver so that it looked like it was seated. I guess that was my big mistake. The bolt had fit through the washer before I drove it into the hole, but apparently the washer got compressed so that the bolt wouldn't go through it. I tried to thread it though the washer with a lot of force, but couldn't do it. I had a bolt that came with a previous handle that was a quarter inch longer, and I did thread through the washer. Its weird that both bolts thread into the frame but one wouldn't go through the hole in the washer. I guess its just slight difference in manufacturing tolerances.

But anyway, I used the longer bolt to attach the handle and was happy until I noticed a gap between the handle and the gun. I'm using that stiff spectra Aussie line from Benthic for shooting line and I'm afraid it might get into that gap and cause me to lose my gun. I know the chances are slim, but I don't want to risk it.

If I don't put a bolt through it, the handle fits tight against the gun with no gap. Maybe that gap is caused by the longer bolt bottoming out in the frame before it pulls the handle tight. I could test the idea if I could get the shorter bolt through the washer, but I can't. I've tried enlarging with hole in the washer with a quarter inch drill but its just too hard. Since the longer bolt will thread through the washer, I've tried threading it into the washer and then driving it out from the top side of the bolt hole, but it just comes out of the washer and leaves the washer in place.

I'm out of ideas. The handle is a nice shape and seems to line my arm up straight behind the gun when I grab it so I'd like to use it, but as it is its useless to me. All this is probably because of a washer too big to fit into the hole. I've even got some lock washers with the same ID as the bolt but a smaller OD that would have fit, but I was dumb enough to try to make the washer that was supplied work. If anyone has a suggestion for getting that washer out of its hole, I'd be glad to hear them. I've wasted several hours on what should take a few minutes and I'm fed up.
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Bill McIntyre » November 9th, 2019, 4:41 pm

I finally solved it so I might as well tell you how in case you want one of these grips. When I couldn’t seem to drill a 1/4” hole through the washer I used a 3/8 bit and managed to drill entire washer out. Then the bolt still wouldn’t go through because the hole in the plastic itself was too small. For all I know the washer wasn’t the problem or if it was I was enlarging the hole it with the quarter inch bit. Now the problem that my drill bit wasn’t long enough to enlarge the hole from either end. So i tried a round file but it was old and rusty so I went to Lowe’s and paid $6 for a new one. I could tell I was making progress when that longer bolt would slide through the hole instead of needing to be threaded through so I kept at it. In probably not more than two more hours I finally got the short bolt through the hole and sure enough, it did pull the grip tight against the gun. Now what will I do with the rest of the weekend?

I guess there are two ways Jon can fix this. Supply very slightly thinner 1/4” bolts Like those that came with my other AR-15 handles, or drill the holes Slightly larger. But that’s his call. If you happen to get one like mine I’d suggest getting a 1/4” drill bit long enough to enlarge the hole. That will beat the hell out of the round file that I used.
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Behslayer » November 9th, 2019, 6:52 pm

Hi Bill, spent a few hours today with a few grips and random varieties of Lock Washers and 1/4" Bolts.. who knew there were such micro differences in tolerances, and in our quest to make this Grip Fit Snug, we get stuck on some of the micro tolerances. We had two batches of Washers, no problem using either one with the other grips we use, but found out that one is 0.487" OD and one is 0.460" OD. Similarly, you would think a 1/4" Machine Screw would be a measurement set in stone... apparently not.

So. We seperated our Washers and Screws, and for safe measure we reamed out the 1/4" portion of the grips 1/64". Sorry you had headaches. We've been using these grips for a while now. I have them on a few of my guns, as do some of our Test Team. But numerically, we've only had about 48 in the field as it's a new product and almost all of those have been assembled in house. Sorry you had to be on the front end of this new product coming to market. But thankful that you brought this to our attention and we will improve the Grip by making sure we match the best fitting components and with a quick Reaming.
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Bill McIntyre » November 10th, 2019, 8:35 am

Well, I'm glad the problem is identified, although I might have preferred that someone else helped do it. :)

I'm still blown away that two quarter inch machine screws that can thread into the same frame can't slide through the same hole in the grip. In retrospect I'm not even sure that it was the washer that was the problem. I couldn't tell what was going on in there, but the machine screw might have been going through the washer OK but then meeting resistance in the hole in the plastic. After I got the washer out it still felt like the same resistance trying to thread into the plastic.

I did notice one other thing that I forgot to mention. After I got the first washer out I tried to drop a different one into the hole and I noticed that it fit fine at first but then got hung up as it got about half way down the hole. It seemed that the hole tapered to narrower as it got deeper. Maybe you already know that. Anyway, I didn't want to take the chance that I'd starting over so I retrieved that washer before it got stuck. I kept trying to enlarge the 1/4" hole with a file, trying to thread the machine screw again, etc. until I was tired of it. When I got close, I ended up putting the screwdriver in the head of the machine screw and slamming the end of the screwdriver down on the bench to just drive the machine screw through the plastic. Then I attached it to the frame without a washer. No way I wanted to get that machine screw out to put a washer under it and then have the washer be the problem. Hopefully I'll like it and never have a reason to remove it.
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Behslayer » November 10th, 2019, 10:22 am

It's tiny tolerances. Some 1/4" Machine Screws have a head diameter of 0.492", others 0.472", others less, washers can vary several hundreths as well.

To be honest. We've used the exact same Screw and Washer on 24 Guns in the past few weeks and had no problems mounting the Grips. We always use a simple impact driver for our screw tightening and using this tool we didn't notice any issue, but after reading your review, I spent time using a few different standard Screw drivers and I could tell it was a tight fit with some of the Screws and Washers I tested. We'll address this 0.02" variability by reaming the holes we'll try 1/64" and see how that works and will test using screw drivers.

We sent out several of these grips to the largest Distributor for AR-15 Grips in the USA. They mounted and tested without an issue and placed an order, but we'll definitely keep closer eyes on making things fit a little looser.
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Donzi Paul » November 10th, 2019, 12:14 pm

Bill, what about just epoxy gluing in a shim from metal or wood?

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Re: Handle mod

Postby Bill McIntyre » November 10th, 2019, 12:37 pm

Donzi Paul wrote:Bill, what about just epoxy gluing in a shim from metal or wood?

Cheers, Don


In place of a washer? The Zytex is so hard that I doubt that a washer is really necessary. I have that grip attached and I'm not taking it off unless I have to. :)
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Donzi Paul » November 10th, 2019, 4:09 pm

You could leave the handle in place and use a feeller gauge to measure the gap, the make a shim the same thickness. I would want to keep any line from snagging in the gap. Another way would to tape off the wood and use JB weld forced into the gap with and razor blade. Good luck.

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Re: Handle mod

Postby Bill McIntyre » November 10th, 2019, 8:09 pm

Don, I’m losing track of the plot. After i was able to get the shorter (fatter) machine screw through the hole and into the frame, there is no gap. Look at those last photos. The grip is snug against the gun.
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Re: Handle mod

Postby Donzi Paul » November 12th, 2019, 6:55 pm

Bill McIntyre wrote:Don, I’m losing track of the plot. After i was able to get the shorter (fatter) machine screw through the hole and into the frame, there is no gap. Look at those last photos. The grip is snug against the gun.



Right Bill. I see it now,nice and tight.Way to go. :obscene-drinkingcheers:

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